December 19, 2014

"I believe that the international motion picture audience is racist — in general pictures with an African American lead don’t play well overseas."

"But Sony sometimes seems to disregard that a picture must work well internationally to both maximize returns and reduce risk, especially pics with decent size budgets."

From the leaked Sony email, the remarks of an unnamed producer. This was in the context of explaining why a particular film didn't do well in foreign countries, but the analysis extends to future planning:
"No, I am not saying ‘The Equalizer’ should not have been made or that African American actors should not have been used (I personally think Denzel is the best actor of his generation).... Casting him is saying we’re ok with a double if the picture works.... He’s reliable at the domestic (box office), safe, but has not had a huge success in years. I believe whenever possible the non event pictures, extra ‘bets’ should have a large inherent upside and be made for the right price. Here there isn’t a large inherent upside."
"Double" isn't some movie-industry term, apparently. It's "double" as opposed to "home run." A baseball analogy. That baseball analogy gives way to a gambling analogy, and we can see that the people channeling the money are trying to make money. It's a money-making business, not a lofty art project or a social-change movement.

But let's take a hard look at the old argument: I'm free of racial bias, but my customers are not. That's the argument restaurants used to defend a whites-only policy half a century ago, before Congress made it illegal. Movies, of course, are a form of expression and not places of public accommodation. There can't be any laws relieving movie-makers of the urge to cater to the racial bias of the audiences. That's true even if we think the producers have nothing sincere to say to us and only use expression as a means to an end to get us to hand over our money.

We can withhold our money. The movie business seems to notice when people avoid a movie. That's what the unnamed producer was doing in that leaked email. And yet it's difficult to imagine people staying away from movies they want to see in an effort to contribute to some inchoate message to the film industry that it should treat black actors the same as white actors.

But to see the leaked emails is to get a clearer picture of the decision-making that underlies the product that we are invited to purchase. We don't buy food when we know the factory is squalid.

58 comments:

Patrick Henry was right! said...

Movies are no more expressive than wedding cakes. Movies be made for the benefit of (and at the request of) every self-identified oppressed minority!

Hagar said...

I have not seen movies on "How it's Made" yet, but have no doubt that is coming.

Nonapod said...

Is there any real evidence that American made movies with leading men who are black typically do worse internationally in comparison to those with a lead who is white? How could you tell that that was the specific reason a particular movie didn't do as well?

Bob Ellison said...

Excellent analysis, Professor.

However, the assumption that for-profit enterprises must needs always maximize profit over all other concerns is over-stated by anti-capitalist, anti-corporate voices.

My company used to have a "we don't work with assholes" rule. It meant that even if the customers or partners were jerks, we wouldn't work with them. Refund. No partnership. No distribution rights.

The rule empowered our workforce, and that made them more productive and happy.

Maybe Sony and Paramount's managers will always assume that profit is paramount. But lots of big companies in media still boldly piss off potential partners because they don't like them. HBO and the Weinsteins, for example.

Oso Negro said...

How sad. The world will not conform to the contemporary expectations of enlightened progressives.

Oso Negro said...

Bob Ellison - I hope your company is doing great! For my part, I have found that the money earned from jerks spends just the same as anyone else's money. Keep going, Sir! You are creating a market space for those of us with fewer scruples.

traditionalguy said...

Sony is Japanese, and the Japanese are all descendants from one Emperor man who just happens to be The Sun god. Try to beat that Denzel.

Peter said...

"That's the argument restaurants used to defend a whites-only policy"

Well, perhaps so. But in this case it's more like the complaint of a restauranteur who accounts the failure of the restaurant to thrive to racism, when it's more likely due to other causes, such as poor food, uninteresting atmosphere, indifferent service, etc.

Some movies are just so bad that even star actors can't generate much public interest.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

Here's what might explain it.

It's not so much racist, but more like how one feels (now) trying to buy Rock Hudson as a leading man in love with a leading lady. Not buying it. Foolish to even try. Many classic movies, now ruined for the knowledgeable viewer.

Similarly, as a minor example, I've been in IT for decades, and can count on one hand the number of African American IT co-workers, and even fewer, the exceptionally good ones.

But of course when they cast Die Hard (and many other movies since), it's a Black guy who is the IT whiz.

Or just watch how well Blacks are doing, based on their depiction in commercials.

This has been going on for some time, and folks are not fooled forever.

When what you see on the screen clangs too hard against reality, one rebels.

Fernandinande said...

AA: But let's take a hard look at the old argument: I'm free of racial bias, but my customers are not.

No, let's look at the new argument, which is "in general pictures with an African American lead don’t play well overseas".

True, or false?

If true, why muddy the waters with irrelevant references to some other argument?

If false, feel free to show it's false.

But to see the leaked emails is to get a clearer picture of the decision-making that underlies the product that we are invited to purchase.

Same decision making as for any other product: profitable is good.

jacksonjay said...

If I want to avoid a movie because it uses MF'er 100 times, does that make me a MF'in racist?

A teaspoon a salt in the gravy makes it delicious, a cup of salt in the gravy makes it inedible.

Eleanor said...

When it comes to movies and TV shows that are meant to be funny, there's also a cultural aspect to what each of us finds to be funny. Sometimes you have to be part of the group to get the joke. Making a comedy that will play worldwide has to be a lot more difficult than making a drama. I don't "get" Tyler Perry's movies. I'm fine with Denzel Washington.

tim maguire said...

I must be reading the email wrong because I think it makes SONY look pretty good. He's saying that casting a black lead means lower profits. That may or may not be true, but it is an industry truism. They believe it and they make decisions accordingly.

Despite this "fact", SONY is sometimes willing to cast a black lead and take the hit to profits if they think that the movie will be better.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

By this logic, Sony should stop making movies with Brad Pitt and George Clooney, as Fury and Monuments Men got similarly poor percent foreign receipts as The Equalizer.

Laslo Spatula said...

Re: "By this logic, Sony should stop making movies with Brad Pitt and George Clooney"

Foreign audiences are homophobic, too.


I am Laslo.

Jim said...

Maybe not if the factory is squalid, but I love foie gras.

Laslo Spatula said...

Do you know how many goats it costs to see a Denzel Washington film in Kenya?

I am Laslo.

Matt Sablan said...

Remember when we were told we shouldn't read all the Climategate emails that got leaked?

Good times.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Fury and Monuments Men both sucked giant green ones. Just because they're foreigners doesn't mean they're idiots. Well, usually it does but not in this particular instance.

Bob Boyd said...

"Clearly our nation's film industry is in crisis. Even as I speak, next years film roles are being misallocated in Hollywood and on locations around the world. The long term repercussions for our society are difficult to fathom, but ordinary Americans see the negative effects every where look.
And once again, Congress, mired in petty politics, is unwilling or unable to respond. We cannot wait. I will not wait.
Ultimately I hope to push strong, comprehensive reform measures through Congress. But my advisers tell me there are actions my administration can take now and I intend to take them.
Americans are tired of paying high prices to watch movies that offend their basic sense of fairness.
We can do better. This not who we are."

Larry J said...

No, let's look at the new argument, which is "in general pictures with an African American lead don’t play well overseas".

One step in the analysis is to divide those movies into different categories, such as drama, comedy, etc. Based on the advertising I see, it seems a good percentage of those movies are marketed to an American urban audience. That may be one reason why they don't do well overseas. The target audience is too narrow.

Twelve said...

There can't be any laws relieving movie-makers of the urge to cater to the racial bias of the audiences.

Wanna bet?

Shanna said...

No, let's look at the new argument, which is "in general pictures with an African American lead don’t play well overseas".

True, or false?


If True (and I'm guessing there is some truth there, just as pop music sells better overseas than country), then that turns studio decisions into a rational cost benefit analysis, which make total sense. I think they should do movies they know are going to be primarily domestic, and budget accordingly. And sometimes, they would do some movies they know are going to flop or maybe just break even, because they dont' want to get a bad reputation as racist, which might harm other movies from the studio.

Larry J said...

Shanna said...
No, let's look at the new argument, which is "in general pictures with an African American lead don’t play well overseas".

True, or false?

If True (and I'm guessing there is some truth there, just as pop music sells better overseas than country), then that turns studio decisions into a rational cost benefit analysis, which make total sense.


Should we lump together movies as diverse as "12 Years a Slave" with, say, "Big Mama's House" just because they have African-American lead actors?

joshbraid said...

"We don't buy food when we know the factory is squalid." Since we buy so very much food from "factories" that are squalid, does that mean the the vast majority of consumers are ignorant? I suggest many are just happy with the garbage they consume.

Shanna said...

Should we lump together movies as diverse as "12 Years a Slave" with, say, "Big Mama's House" just because they have African-American lead actors?

Of course not, but they are probably primarily domestic flicks regardless, simply because of their subject matter.

I suspect (without looking it up) that we mostly export big action flicks and superhero kind of movies so when we talk about the international market that is what we're talking about.

William said...

Am I right in gleaning from this that American audiences are less antipathetic to black leading men than the rest of the world? Isn't that something to celebrate? We're not the world capital of racism.......Denzel Washington is a brand name. More often than not his movies are entertaining and worth seeing. If American audiences can figure that out, I think it's possible that international audiences can also.......I don't put Will Smith in the same class as an actor with Denzel Washington, but his movies are fun, and I always thought he had an international following,

JackWayne said...

Once again Ann ties herself in knots defending despotic government taking freedoms away for our own good. Because they know better and their hearts are pure.

Anonymous said...

And now you can add Al Sharpton to the list of people Amy Petain, I mean Pascal, is kowtowing to.

n.n said...

Bias is innate. However, this "tribalism" doesn't necessarily translate to prejudice without a further cause. Viewing habits is not conclusive evidence of prejudice.

Dave Schumann said...

If the Republicans had any stones (*) they'd use this incident to pass laws that radically gut the power of this industry which is consistently a huge donor to their opponents (as the Democrats do in any similar circumstance) --

* Movie-making studios have to have all their computer systems' security certified by DoD or they can't export
* Certification has to be renewed every year and paid for by a heavy export tax on movies
* Cut funding for anti-piracy efforts at home and abroad
* Repeal all tax loopholes involving movie production
* Withhold block grants from states that give tax preferences to movie studios

(*) so obviously this is a fantasy. Republicans will, instead, whore themselves out to any company willing to spend a few hundred dollars on their ludicrous self-defeating TV ads.

Dave Schumann said...

...and specifically, Republicans would cite the damage that the movie industry does to America's standing overseas by painting all foreigners as racist. Hit it again and again. Force foreign leaders to address studios' allegations that their people are more racist than the US.

mccullough said...

The movies than tend to do best internationally (especially China) are over the top action/special effects.

Transformers and Amazing Spider-Man 2, which did okay domestically, had international revenues well in excess of domestic.

Jamie Foxx was the villain in Amazing Spider-Man 2. Maybe the black guy as villain sells well overseas.

mccullough said...

Would a black 007 do as well financially?

lgv said...

" Blogger Nonapod said...

Is there any real evidence that American made movies with leading men who are black typically do worse internationally in comparison to those with a lead who is white? How could you tell that that was the specific reason a particular movie didn't do as well?"

One can do a statistical analysis of the difference in domestic vs. international revenue. You can put in all sorts of variables to due the regression analyis, one being the skin color of the leading man. So, it is possible to have evidence of this theory.

They should have two lead actors and shoot each scene twice, once with Denzel and once with a cheaper white guy. Make two versions, one for domestic and one for international. Just kidding.

Anonymous said...

Denzel is the only black leading man I watch. The others are too gangster-esque.

In any case, I don't watch any movies, with white or black actors. The stories are worse than stale bread, actors have no characters, actresses have no class. Missing the '60s.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

The Equalizer made $191M worldwide, as opposed to $182M for Fury and $155M for Fury.

The Equalizer cost $55M to make. Fury cost $80M and Monuments Men cost $70M. All were made by Sony.

It seems pretty clear from the-numbers.com that the producer's belief is demonstrably false.

Sony did do quite a bit better with The Amazing Spider-Man 2, where they earned $203M domestically and $505M internationally for a total of $708. That cost $200M to make, which puts it in a whole different category of movie investment.

Shanna said...

It seems pretty clear from the-numbers.com that the producer's belief is demonstrably false.

That would only work if you could compare to what it would have made with a white actor. In theory. It doesn't prove or disprove, it's just one data point really.

One can do a statistical analysis of the difference in domestic vs. international revenue. You can put in all sorts of variables to due the regression analyis, one being the skin color of the leading man. So, it is possible to have evidence of this theory.

Exactly. I don't know if it's true or not, but it should be pretty easy to get an idea. That doesn't mean that an individual movie might not do just fine.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

It's an ugly argument, sure, but if the producer is a finance person you (as a Sony owner) really want them to take a Spock-like view and notice any patterns that might exist, no matter whether ugly or not, right?

The argument over whether the producer's belief is correct is distinct from the argument over whether the producer (or anyone else in Sony) should consider possibilities like that.

But, I mean, we know the producer's wrong, since it's an obvious fact Americans are the most racist and bigoted people around.

Fernandinande said...

Lists of highest-grossing films in France (of all time).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_highest-grossing_films_in_France

1 Titanic
2 Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis
3 The Intouchables
4 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
5 La Grande Vadrouille
6 Gone with the Wind
7 Once Upon a Time in the West
8 Avatar
9 The Jungle Book
10 One Hundred and One Dalmatians


List of 2014 box office number-one films in China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2014_box_office_number-one_films_in_China
(Why the duplicates...? Dunno)

1 Police Story 2013
2 Despicable Me 2
3 Despicable Me 2
4 Boonie Bears: To the Rescue
5 The Monkey King
6 The Monkey King
7 Beijing Love Story
8 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
9 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
10 RoboCop

List of 2014 box office number-one films in Romania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2014_box_office_number-one_films_in_Romania
1 Frozen
2 The Wolf of Wall Street
3 The Wolf of Wall Street
4 I, Frankenstein
5 The Legend of Hercules
6 The Legend of Hercules
7 Winter's Tale
8 Pompeii
9 Pompeii
10 300: Rise of an Empire

List of 2014 box office number-one films in the United Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2014_box_office_number-one_films_in_the_United_Kingdom
1 American Hustle
2 12 Years a Slave
3 The Wolf of Wall Street
4 The Wolf of Wall Street
5 The Wolf of Wall Street
6 Mr. Peabody & Sherman
7 The Lego Movie
8 The Lego Movie
9 The Lego Movie
10 Rise of an Empire

More lists here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_box_office_number-one_films

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Dave Schumann said...
If the Republicans had any stones (*) they'd use this incident to pass laws that radically gut the power of this industry which is consistently a huge donor to their opponents (as the Democrats do in any similar circumstance) --


Damn Dave, I consider myself pretty cynical (w/r/t contemporary politics) but that angle didn't even occur to me! Sony bringing in Sharpton makes the cultural/political lines a little easier to see, though.

eddie willers said...

Would a black 007 do as well financially?

I'm sure he would blend in well at the Monte Carlo baccarat tables.

holdfast said...

I have to think that Will Smith is the exception. He does lots of big tentpole movies, and he has this weirdly appealing goofiness that knows no racial lines. No matter what character he's playing you want to like the guy.

"Would a black 007 do as well financially?"

If anyone could pull it off, it would be Idris Elba. I guess it would be weird still, since we "know" Bond is white, but I'd still pay to see the movie.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

holdfast said...If anyone could pull it off, it would be Idris Elba. I guess it would be weird still, since we "know" Bond is white, but I'd still pay to see the movie.

Seconded.

mikee said...

"We don't buy food when we know the factory is squalid."

Argument against this concept: porn.

It isn't the consumers who determine if the factory is squalid, it is the manufacturers.

A better ending line might be, "We don't make films that are PC when we know the customers are squalid/prejudiced."



buwaya said...

The world is very racist indeed, much more so than its convenient to acknowledge in the US, as that would challenge much parochial political rhetoric.
Also, I dont see why Sony should continue to run an entertainment business from the US. This is a very easy thing to decentralize and globalize. If Americans are needed for managerial or creative roles then can be hired and planted anywhere. Why isn't Hollywood obsolete?

Jupiter said...

William said...
"Am I right in gleaning from this that American audiences are less antipathetic to black leading men than the rest of the world? Isn't that something to celebrate? We're not the world capital of racism.."

No, America is the most racist country on Earth. Just look around at all the countries that had their first black president decades ago; France, Britain, Germany, Russia, Japan, China, Syria -- the list is endless.

Shanna said...

If anyone could pull it off, it would be Idris Elba.

Ooooh! I adore Craig, but I would love to see Elba in a spy movie. Just write one, it doesn't have to be james bond. Get on that, hollywood.

lemondog said...

Anyone actually see the movie? Rotten Tomatoes gives it 3 of 5 stars. The plot reads like another tired ‘90’s violent movie with an American kicking ass. Maybe Hollywood needs more imaginative writers and improved storylines with characters to which movie goers can better relate.

Along with Cate Blanchard, Denzel is one of the best actors around. His presence would be the only reason I could be persuaded to see it.

mccullough said...

Elba would make a great James Bond.

And Jeffrey Wright has been good as Felix Lighter.

Unknown said...

I haven't read all the comments so this may be repetitive but I note that many movies with black stars are stories that glamorize a lawless character or way of life. That would obviously not apply to the Sidney Poitier (sp?) typecast (earnest, intelligent, honest) but definitely would apply to the "Shaft" type movies. Those may not play well away from the two coasts.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

No money was lost at the worldwide box office by casting Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury or Morgan Freeman as Lucius Fox.

Nor was the big score blocked by starring Zoe Saldana in Avatar, the highest grossing movie of all time, or in Guardians of the Galaxy, which is currently the second highest grossing movie of 2014.

Revenant said...

He's correct about foreign racism.

Another difference between this and (for example) restaurant service is that if you force a country's restaurants to do something, residents of that country can either (a) not patronize restaurants at all or (b) put up with it.

With entertainment that isn't the case. You can watch movies made on the other side of the planet as easily as you can watch ones made next door.

Known Unknown said...

I have to think that Will Smith is the exception. He does lots of big tentpole movies, and he has this weirdly appealing goofiness that knows no racial lines. No matter what character he's playing you want to like the guy.


So you didn't see AfterEarth then, I take it.

Known Unknown said...

Nor was the big score blocked by starring Zoe Saldana in Avatar, the highest grossing movie of all time, or in Guardians of the Galaxy, which is currently the second highest grossing movie of 2014.

That "black" woman was blue in Avatar and green in Guardians of the Galaxy.

Revenant said...

No money was lost at the worldwide box office by casting Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury or Morgan Freeman as Lucius Fox. Nor was the big score blocked by starring Zoe Saldana in Avatar, the highest grossing movie of all time, or in Guardians of the Galaxy, which is currently the second highest grossing movie of 2014.

The author is refers to avoiding the risk of black actors in "non event pictures". I take that as saying that summer blockbusters like Avatar, Avengers, et al -- the ones with the gajillion-dollar worldwide ad campaigns and product tie-ins -- operate under different rules.

Sam L. said...

I would presume they have box-office receipt totals to justify that statement.

davinci78 said...

I have this niggling thought that it wasn't North Korea who hacked Sony.

It wouldn't surprise me at all that the POTUS and his minions had a hand in getting this info out into the public. Fits the racist meme of the moment.