October 14, 2017

"The movie industry I’ve known for the past 30 years... is reconstituting itself in my mind this week like pieces of a broken mirror being glued back in place..."

"... the cracks now forever visible," writes Dana Stevens (at Slate), who's been writing about movies for something like a decade, yet claims she "truly didn't" know "any of the more sordid Weinstein rumors." (Did she know any of the less sordid rumors? She does "guiltily question" whether she should have picked up some clues and could have dug into them.)

In this metaphorical reglued broken mirror in her mind, Stevens sees:
Gwyneth Paltrow holding her Oscar for Shakespeare in Love, standing beaming next to the man whose hotel suite she had to escape from a few years earlier after he invited her to the bedroom for a massage.... Or Mira Sorvino getting her Oscar for Mighty Aphrodite and then mysteriously—or perhaps not so mysteriously anymore—fading from the screen. Or Rosanna Arquette never going on to the career she deserved....
But the linked column doesn't go where I would take it. When I saw the headline at Slate — "The Harvey Weinstein Scandal Is Changing How I Look at the Movies" — I thought it going to say what I've been saying: Because movies are shot through with human exploitation, we should withhold our patronage. These big expensive projects create immense power that is used to grind up young women, and we should not want to expose our mind to this material. If you need stories about human beings, read. A writer of books works alone (mostly) and uses words to create images of beautiful women and other human beings who do and say interesting, meaningful things. No actors needed.

But Stevens has no plan to redirect her consumption of stories. Well, her job is movie critic, so she can't just say no, can she?

123 comments:

rhhardin said...

These big expensive projects create immense power that is used to grind up young women

Great movie idea.

You need a woman and some man who loves her, presumably one that previously won and then lost her, to rescue her and then apologize leading to the closing kiss.

Now it's just a matter of casting.

David Begley said...

Althouse: Stay on this case. Surely more to come.

rhhardin said...

The market for moral panics is the same as the market for movies.

MadisonMan said...

I admit it does color how I view Stars now too. I assume they are all complicit in this. That's bad for the people who truly didn't know -- but if it is as widespread as whispers say, how could anyone not know? But as long as you get your own blockbuster series, I guess it's okay? Right Mr. Damon? (I'm sure he's played the "But I have daughters" card).

richlb said...

One thing I keep thinking: all of these actors who suddenly "wish they would have done more" - are they going to start naming names and shaming other offenders now? And not easy targets like Steven Seagal, but real, currently powerful men. I suspect not.

Tom said...


They knew:

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22222/flashback-video-barbara-walters-scolds-corey-chase-stephens

rhhardin said...

Hugh Grant in The Rewrite (2014), teaching a course on script writing, gave an honest criticism of a woman's script submitted, a woman he had had on a casting couch at the beginning of the semester and was forced to drop, so she was bitter; a script that was about him and her.

The criticism was that you can't have a good guy and a bad guy. You need character development.

So there he helped her out two ways.

rhhardin said...

The Rewrite also had an appalled feminist professor, with amusing exchanges. Grant got the better of it but in the end helped her out too.

Chris Breisch said...

You know, I can't help thinking about the so-called exploitation of women in the porn industry. It doesn't appear that the women in mainstream films fare much better. And at least the porn stars know what they're getting into, and appear to be exploited willingly.

rhhardin said...

A lot of [Robert E Lee's] letters are very foxy. He's obviously attracted to women and likes to write naughty notes to them. But as far as I can tell, he was not unfaithful, and his wife (Mary Anna Randolph Custis) accepted his flirtatiousness with great humor. For instance, he will write these saucy letters, and she will add a friendly note at the end. She'll write, we're going to a reception, and I hope Robert doesn't pass himself off as a young widower!

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2007/06/24/the-private-thoughts-of-robert-e-lee

rhhardin said...

Grinding up young women started with Jack and the Beanstalk.

Ray said...

I want to go to a movie to be entertained, and movies are mostly crap.

I feel like a curmudgeon...

- Actors that get political. I don't care about your opinion, and please stop this morale preening and lecturing.
- Social justice junk that do not reflect reality. Why are villains always White?
- Chinese appealing elements
- No story

Examples:
- I had seen every Star Trek movie released at the movies, till the last one.
- Same with Star Wars, I saw the original 7 times in the movie theater. Last one, I skipped.
- Blade Runner - I skipped the new one, I'm a huge fan of the original original cut.

JZ said...

I will accept what people in California say -- that they were shocked when the Harvey Weinstein story broke. But it's not easy to believe them. I look at Harvey Weinstein and I think it's obvious that he's abusive. It's written all over him.

Kate said...

The movie business needs to go all Elizabethan and cast men in women's roles. That'll solve the casting couch problem.

In the era of Caitlyn Jenner, that joke isn't as ridiculous as it used to be. My God, I think I've inadvertently predicted a Hollywood answer to the dilemma. Only "women" can be cast as women. And half the females in America would call the solution inclusive.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

I don't remember if Hansel and Gretel involved grinding up women. Whatever it was, it supplied the motivation.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

In many ways Hollywood reminds of high school cliques. There are the cool kids, the rich kids, Athletes, pretty girls, etc. With sex, drugs, money and power and bullying. If you want to be in the clique you have to pay the price.

Ann Althouse said...

"I don't remember if Hansel and Gretel involved grinding up women. Whatever it was, it supplied the motivation."

Maybe you're thinking of "Jack and the Beanstalk."

Fee-fi-fo-fum,
I smell the blood of an Englishman,
Be he alive, or be he dead
I'll grind his bones to make my bread.

David said...

Plus the movies are mostly crap.

Exploitation of females is nothing new in the entertainment industry. The "Golden Age" was full of such doings.

The industry has always been unaccountable. Except at the box office. We will see how that turns out.

Sports is entertainment. Think Wilt Chamberlin, Magic Johnson (perfectly named) or Wade Boggs (for racial balance.)

Music: Groupies, the Beatles, Rappers.

Politics: John Kennedy and Bill Clinton. Such lovable rascals. Trump is just a rascal though, even though his predations are minuscule compared to the other two. Or think Ted Kennedy.

My question is why are we this outraged at this moment? Someone will parse this better than I can but think these possibilities:

1. A particularly repellant and widely celebrated male.
2. The intersection with money, politics and a complacent widely disrespected media.
3. Feminism? I'm not so sure this is a big factor. Feminism has been around for a long time now, so why give feminists the credit now?
4. Easy target for gotcha culture.
5. Internet? 24/7 media?
6. Clintons.
7. Outrage culture.
8. We have finally come to our senses? Unlikely but we will find it nice to think so.





David said...

Also what Hardin said: "The market for moral panics is the same as the market for movies.:

Ann Althouse said...

The most famous image of grinding up women was this famous Hustler cover.

rhhardin said...

Radio Derb suggests chaperones for all women.

Ann Althouse said...

"Maybe you're thinking of "Jack and the Beanstalk.""

I'm reading the thread out of order (and see you already mentioned that).

Mark Alexander said...

Until the Hollywood pedophilia rings are exposed with names named, this scandal has not run its course. I don’t blame Corey for withholding. He has a family, and he would need a Weinstein-number of accusers to feel safe naming names.

Ann Althouse said...

"My question is why are we this outraged at this moment? Someone will parse this better than I can but think these possibilities..."

Because Ronan Farrow had the motive, resources, access, and determination to do what no one else had.

Ironically, it helped that he himself had the door-opening magic of physical beauty.

Ray said...

Forces remaking Hollywood:

- Netflix and Amazon are huge forces in Hollywood production. Note how fast Amazon suspended the person accused.

- Video games are much bigger than Hollywood

- Technology to make your own movie is getting much cheaper. My mother watched some fan produced Star Trek and enjoyed it.

- DVD sales have collapsed. Former huge source of income for Hollywood

- YouTube monetization possible by creators

- Growth of Chinese market affecting movie content

- Big budget pictures, $100 million plus, that must be block busters to succeed

- Attempt to reduce risk by doing remakes

- Anti Trump megaphone of Hollywood. It's affected my viewing habits...

- majority of blockbusters Disney produced

Paco Wové said...

"Stevens has no plan to redirect her consumption of stories. Well, her job is movie critic, so she can't just say no, can she?"

Indeed. Her situation is akin to someone whose job is "fast food critic" or, maybe, "tobacco product critic".

Barry Dauphin said...

If Stevens didn’t know any of the more sordid rumors, why are we supposed to take her seriously? How knowledgeable about the industry can she be?

David said...

"Because Ronan Farrow had the motive, resources, access, and determination to do what no one else had."

Yes, and all that resentment of Woody's bad actions.

But why is the public reacting as it has? New Yorker vs. National Inquirer? I just don't know.

Laslo Spatula said...

Why are we assuming Harvey only took advantage of women?

Just because Brad Pitt hasn't come forward to say Harvey sucked his cock?

I am Laslo.

David said...

Or vice versa Laslo.

Bay Area Guy said...

"Why are we assuming Harvey only took advantage of women?"

And, why are we assuming Harvey didn't have a cadre of other powerful studio execs who assisted him and did the exact same stuff?

The Hollywood rot spreads far and wide. It ain't just Harvey.


fivewheels said...

Dana Stevens is a hack with typical media-class views and smugness, who dinged "Iron Man" because it wasn't anti-Bush enough. Nothing was going to intrude on her political tunnel vision.

David Smith said...

Why now? Now? Seriously, who hasn't known that this is how power works since they got over their adolescence (mid-twenties to forties for most boomers)? Particularly in Big Entertainment? When was the term "casting couch" first used? Long before I popped out 70 years ago.

So, why now, and why Weinstein? Maybe just kudos to Farrow - I try to not be *too* cynical - but remember, it was the Red Lady that broke the story. Might HW be the poison pill to finally shut HRC up and put WJC off the reservation far enough that they can denounce him and the moderate, triangulating Democrats he rode in on?

Fernandinande said...

is reconstituting itself in my mind

I'm glad this reporter reports on her important imaginings.

Gwyneth Paltrow

Had to look that one up; she looks like The Woman's™ scrawny sister. The only show I'd seen - because I'd just read the book - was "The Talented Mr. Ripley", which really sucked.

But I know I'd heard of Paltrow somewhere - she runs, or at least sells her name to, a bogus lifestyle/health company called "Goop".

standing beaming next to the man whose hotel suite she had to escape from a few years earlier after he invited her to the bedroom for a massage.

She's beaming because she nothing happened, or what?

Anyway, her bogus woo-woo company makes her worse than Weinstein, but I'm not going to boycott anything because of it.

Now I Know! said...

Given the complicity of Bezo/Amazon/Washington Post, Ann have you thought about withdrawing your patronage and removing your Amazon portal?

rehajm said...

Or Mira Sorvino getting her Oscar for Mighty Aphrodite and then mysteriously—or perhaps not so mysteriously anymore...

A Best Actress Oscar has historically been the kiss of death rather than a career maker. Supply/demand and the young expiration date theory would seem more valid.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Manchester by the Sea is a perfect example of CRAP hollywood. Complete garbage. Depressive empty non-entertainment. We are all told that the acting "is so good! deserves an award!"

No. It's crap. all of it. The script. The acting. Garbage.

sirpatrick said...

I thought that it was interesting that Asia Argento, who is one of Weinstein's most vocal "victims", signed the Hollywood petition in support of Roman Polanski.

Darrell said...

If Stevens didn’t know any of the more sordid rumors, why are we supposed to take her seriously? How knowledgeable about the industry can she be?

I don't read columnists that said Hillary's win was a certainty one month before the election. Or any of Chuck's comments. Same premise--why trust someone who was so wrong? Someone should print a list of all the glowing articles about Weinstein over the last twenty years.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Meryl Streep is the left's top Theocracy cat in Hillarywood.

She will preach to you. Please believe.

Achilles said...

Blogger Now I Know! said...
"Given the complicity of Bezo/Amazon/Washington Post, Ann have you thought about withdrawing your patronage and removing your Amazon portal?"

Pure bad faith.

Leftists are just terrible people.

robother said...

I think it was one of the commenters on this site who speculated that we might see movie credits begin to include a "No women were harassed, assaulted or raped in the production, casting or direction of this motion picture" disclaimer. Presumably this would provide a new (by definition woman-dominated) niche in the movie industry, suitable for actresses of a certain age. Maybe they could even dress like the Sicilian women in Michael Corleone's courtship of his first wife.

Darrell said...

Harvey made the mistake of believing because he could, he must. You get the sense that his heart wasn't in to some of his molestations. Jizzing in a potted plant? Sad.

Laslo Spatula said...

Mira Sorvino and Ashley Judd starred in an HBO movie where they both played Marilyn Monroe.

From Wiki:

"Norma Jean & Marilyn is a 1996 made-for-TV biographical film produced by HBO and premiered on May 18, 1996. The film featured Ashley Judd as Norma Jean Dougherty and Mira Sorvino as Marilyn Monroe."

Ashley had some spark, and looked good naked.

Mira was underwhelming, and did not look good naked.

Not sure why her agent put her up for that role: Mira might be many things (Romy as example) but she is not a Marilyn Monroe.

Description from imdb of another Marilyn movie, "Goodbye, Norma Jean":

"Abused as a child and an adult, she lacks self-confidence, but photographer Ralph Johnson takes some publicity shots and convinces her to try for her dream, and supports her as she's bounced from casting couches to sleazy photo shoots."

Key phrase: casting couch.

From a synopsis of the movie:

"...Norma Jean’s getting the opportunity to meet the head of a big movie studio in his office. “I don’t believe in formalities,” he says, dropping his trousers, “they bore me.” Misty Rowe gets to deliver an unforgettable response: “There was a time, not too long ago, when that would have shocked me. Now I’m just disgusted.. You win-I’ll be your degraded whore.” She then drops a pillow onto the floor in front of him, adding, “but not before I give you a message from every girl who ever had to kneel in front of a slimey scum like you for a chance to work: how we hate you, because you make us hate ourselves.”

"...And she knows that she’ll at last be offered a studio contract. And she knows she’s finally made it to the big time. She leans against the wall next to the projector and mutters the film’s final line, the bit of dialogue that puts this movie into the pantheon of Bad Movies We Love: “That’s the last cock I’ll ever have to suck!”

“That’s the last cock I’ll ever have to suck!”: that line of dialogue was sadly missing from Ashley Judd and Mira Sorvino.

I am Laslo.

tcrosse said...

Given the complicity of Bezo/Amazon/Washington Post, Ann have you thought about withdrawing your patronage and removing your Amazon portal?

I got your Tu Quoques right here.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Because movies are shot through with human exploitation, we should withhold our patronage.

The rot, corruption and abuse of not just women, but also young boys, children, and even men has gotten worse and worse until like a giant boil, it has erupted and all the puss is streaming out. Corruption in the acting side of the profession and in the screenwriting, production....ALL levels.

This corruption probably explains why movies have become almost worthless to watch. Good actors and actresses who don't prostitute themselves are squeezed out so all we get to watch are untalented, interchangeable, actresses and actors. Ever notice how they mostly look the same? The types the powerful want to fuck, get the jobs. They look like clones. The less attractive or less compliant don't. Scripts are terrible. There is hardly any real plot or dramatic turns to entertain. Cookie cutter productions made by the corrupted and the coerced.

There are a few independent productions and producers who are still creating GOOD and challenging films. For example: Clint Eastwood with Gran Torino (I highly recommend for the subtle sub plots and cultural sensitivities),Unforgiven, Mystic River, and Million Dollar Baby and others are unique. He can afford to buck the trend.

Until the corruption has been handled (it will never be gone) people SHOULD shun the movies. Read books. If you MUST have a social event, read aloud to each other. Take a great book and read a few chapters aloud and then discuss what you have heard, what you have felt, what you imagine. People used to do this all the time before electronic media.

alan markus said...

Now I Know! said...
Given the complicity of Bezo/Amazon/Washington Post, Ann have you thought about withdrawing your patronage and removing your Amazon portal?


You just ripped off A Reasonable Man's comment that he made yesterday - he beat you to it.

Just like yesterday you were doing the "Trump and Republicans Now Own Health Care" - ripped off from the headlines that were popping up.

AllenS said...

Now I Know! said...
Given the complicity of Bezo/Amazon/Washington Post, Ann have you thought about withdrawing your patronage and removing your Amazon portal?

Have you thought about coming up with some new material?

Darrell said...

Where's that ARM asshole saying that NoWIWoke is a breath of fresh air?

Robin Eatmon said...

The focus on women being abused by powerful men only tells part of the story...the rot goes much deeper. Related tidbit...I heard that there were no cameras in the hotel halls that could have helped with the Vegas shooter case. Why? to hide depraved behavior?...what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Maybe the same mindset in Hollywood...till now?

AllenS said...

I agree with Robin about the cameras.

Big Mike said...

But Stevens has no plan to redirect her consumption of stories. Well, her job is movie critic, so she can't just say no, can she?

Seems that it should be as simple as "Boss, I'm resigning from the movie beat effective immediately "?

Jose_K said...

These big expensive projects create immense power that is used to grind up young women..
Sunset Boulevard

Big Mike said...

I sure wish that Siskel and Ebert were still alive so I could get the take of the most iconic reviewers of my lifetime.

Laslo Spatula said...

Casting Couch (2013)

"Desperate to meet new girls, six libidinous down-on-their-luck guys come up with the ultimate plan to hook up - cast a fake movie. When tons of hot chicks show up for the audition (and a few guys), it's a matter of who's willing to go the farthest to get the part."

Wonder why Harvey didn't produce this movie.

I am Laslo.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, would you mind putting up a poll to see how many of us believe Dana when she says she "truly didn't " know? Answers would be yes, Hell no, and "I just 'truly don't' know."

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

Movies shot through with exploitation ....
It's a cliche that in American movies, a loner who somehow has evil forces against him is justified in inflicting violence and cruelty on others--often on innocent people or police officers. I see an inspiration for Stephen Paddock more than for Harvey Weinstein. I've enjoyed "Falling Down" more than once. My son saw it recently and said something like: "what a horrible movie! That is pure white male privilege." Violence against a Korean store owner who has done nothing wrong. Even the violence against "gangsters" starts with very little provocation. A movie for Trump voters, one might say. As in Heat, a movie in which we sympathize with thieves, and then see them kill a lot of police officers after a bank robbery, both the good guys and the bad guys have trouble maintaining relationships with women. Dog Day Afternoon, a classic, people in a bank are held hostage by a guy who becomes a popular hero. Women are present mainly as a problem.
Sexual exploitation of women? Much of the experience of movies has to do with voyeurism--being able to see and experience private things, things you normally wouldn't see or wouldn't be permitted to see. Once you start down that road, the idea of a woman undressing--or being made to undress--for males is never far away. Rear Window, another classic,Jimmy Stewart seeing whatever he wants in a variety of apartments, including women undressing, etc. Coming to visit him: Grace Kelly at her loveliest, sometimes trying on clothes. This all probably conformed to the famous Code, but it would be naive to pretend that resolves all the relevant issues.

AReasonableMan said...

alan markus said...
You just ripped off A Reasonable Man's comment that he made yesterday - he beat you to it.


No. Now I Know! had this beat first. I came late to the party. My modest contribution has been to encourage him in his rigorous all-encompassing view of moral responsibility. We are all fallen, even those of us with Amazon portals.

Etienne said...

What's missing here, is the women who entered Hollywood, just to get the most pictures of men's penes.

I think there was a movie about this called "The Banger Sisters", only they used Rock Stars to throw off the lawyers.

Angel-Dyne said...

Kate: The movie business needs to go all Elizabethan and cast men in women's roles. That'll solve the casting couch problem.

That's immensely naïve.

AA: These big expensive projects create immense power that is used to grind up young women...

And young men, and boys...

Hell's bells, I pay less attention to movies and Hollywood than just about anyone, and even I'm aware that this isn't a "women's issue".

AllenS said...

Sorry, ARM, I'm guessing "her" not "him".

Laslo Spatula said...

Dialogue from Casting Couch (2013)

Justin: Problem is: type of girls that I want to bang don't wanna bang me. These Hollywood hotties want a guy with power. They want someone who can change their life - and by "life" I mean career.

I am Laslo.

MayBee said...

Imagine you were a young person who wanted fame, fortune, and glamour -- basically winning the best lottery there is- and all you have to do is sleep with this one ugly person. Now imagine that in the job you want, you are more than likely going to be asked to be naked on set, make out with someone you don't find attractive, and possibly be naked to the world. Would it be such a stretch to have actual penetration to get all this reward?

Now imagine you are the person that holds the keys to this lottery for the young, attractive people. Would you not eventually learn that you can do this, if this is what you want to do? "Make" them have sex with you?

What if you are in an environment where your own morality is the only thing holding you back? Certainly the environment you are in doesn't mind promiscuity or philandering. In fact, the PR people have found a way to celebrate it.

Why would this *not* be widespread?

Meade said...

"My modest contribution has been to encourage him in his rigorous all-encompassing view of moral responsibility. We are all fallen, even those of us with Amazon portals."

Any reasonably honest moral person, believing this blog to be tainted by an Amazon portal, would never add a single page view of traffic by clicking on the http://althouse.blogspot.com address, much less by contributing comments.

reader said...

I want to know what Oprah knows and when she learned of it. The dreams of a Clooney or Oprah presidency have surely been tainted.

Now I Know! said...

...or watch Fox News.

jacksonjay said...

We are to believe this Girl Scout skipped the 2013 Oscars? The one where Family Guy, with anger and loathing, joked about the The Hedonist! How stupid does she think we are?

Now I Know! said...

Meade, I don't remember Ann promoting a boycott of Fox News.

tcrosse said...

We are all fallen, even those of us with Amazon portals.

Some have fallen farther than others.

Now I Know! said...

It seems that moral outrage is shaped by whose ox is getting gored.

AReasonableMan said...

tcrosse said...
Some have fallen farther than others.


I'm guessing those amazon portals are pretty heavy.

AReasonableMan said...

AllenS said...
Sorry, ARM, I'm guessing "her" not "him".


I should pay more attention to these nuances.

William said...

The move to expose the crimes of the Church was not driven by the Church hierarchy, nor even by parish priests. It was the parishioners who drove the story. And, of course, there are many people who never liked the Church to begin with and found the story of pedo priests a useful club to use against the Church............Just about everyone in Hollywood is tainted by the Weinstein story. Most of the outrage comes from moviegoers and not moviemakers. And, of course, I belong to that group of people who rejoice at the chance to see Matt Damon and Meryl Streep squirming and hope further revelations lead to more embarrassments for those smug bastards......I think the Church has now taken the position that no priest should ever be left alone and unaccompanied with children. Perhaps a similar position can be taken with producers and directors. They should simply not be left alone in the room with talent.

Ritchie The Riveter said...

My question is why are we this outraged at this moment?

Because our wannabe lords want to get out in front of the mass unraveling of the pink hats and the narrative that knitted them, lest they get caught in the avalanche of both yarns.

One of their cohort - a lord-maker - got caught actually DOING what they decry ... for years ... while the object of their hate merely TALKED about "grabbing pussy".

Their credibility is unraveling right along with those pink hats, and they know it.

Meanwhile, those "deplorable" people they seek to lord over are standing up and calling them out on it, knowing that this, like the kNeeling Football League, is a crisis we MUST not waste if we are going to dissipate the mirage of these wannabe lords as worthy of the title and authority.

Understand the real reason they hate Trump ... he doesn't seek to lord it over the rest of us, and stands in the way of their efforts to do just that. They know that if we re-acquire a taste for such respectful leadership, their Utopia will never come to pass.

Earnest Prole said...

If I recall, you don’t really care for movies, do you? Wasn’t it Mencken who said criticism is “prejudice made plausible”?

Ritchie The Riveter said...

Perhaps a similar position can be taken with producers and directors. They should simply not be left alone in the room with talent.

You mean they should follow the Billy Graham Rule? How narrow-minded! /sarc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Graham_rule

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

All these rich leftwing democrat asshole actors living in mansions strewn around the globe and we are prodded and manipulated into worshiping these holier than thou leftwing theocrats.

It's time to stop.

Amadeus 48 said...

So, since we are into OCD levels of repetitive comments from Now/Once, I'll go back to mine:

When are you going to apologize to Althouse for calling her a racist and failing to provide any proof? I'm surprised Meade lets you post here at all.

Roughcoat said...

she "truly didn't" know "any of the more sordid Weinstein rumors."

I knew them, and I haven't worked in or near the entertainment industry in almost thirty years, when I was an advertising copywriter. But my wife works in the industry (via advertising) and she's heard them all; and they are very sordid indeed.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Vendors on Amazon have nothing to do with this. Why should THEY be punished for the wrongs of Hollywood and Bezos?

Not buying through the Amazon Portal is virtue signalling that may make 'some' people feel good about themselves, however, there are thousands of small businesses and individual sellers who have been able to use the technology platform provided by Amazon to make a decent living.

Think about who you are actually harming when you decide to become a virtue signalling ass.

William said...

I saw a wall with all the different women who have come forward with accusations against Harvey. All of the women were beautiful and many of them were famous. Beautiful, famous women. Salacious stories. This scandal is the most entertaining and engrossing drama Hollywood has produced in years. I can't wait for the next turn of the plot.

rhhardin said...

I saw a wall with all the different women who have come forward with accusations against Harvey.

Maybe it goes with the vagina wall Althouse discussed long ago.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

If you tune into the Jimmy Kimmel show, you support rape.

Eat that one, leftists.

AReasonableMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AReasonableMan said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
Think about who you are actually harming when you decide to become a virtue signalling ass.


Truly, we are all connected, as if in some vast collective.

William said...

I have a double standard. I enjoy Hitchcock films and will continue to watch them. He apparently had some kind of weird thing going on with Tippi Hedren. Maybe that was part of the dynamic that made The Birds such an effective film.......Harvey made some good movies, but I think that was despite rather than because of his sexual hang ups. But, like I say, double standard on my part......Women are the ones with the most flagrant double standards. Warren Beatty and Leonardo DiCaprio have used their fame and good looks to bed thousands of women. The dynamic is no diffferent than what went on with Hugh Heffner or Donald Trump, but I've yet to hear a feminist voice a word of criticism against them.

Krumhorn said...

I dissent. The mirror isn't broken. Nothing much will change. Of course the big hairy fat predators like Harvey will have a rough time getting laid with most of the pretty girls. But there are plenty of potted plants to go around.

The problem here is that the focus has entirely been on predatory weirdness. What will not ever change is that powerful wealthy men will have no trouble getting laid without all of the lurid and disgusting conduct. They just need to be reasonably patient and let it happen. Most powerful studio, agency, law firm, and producer big shots can be charming, witty, and beguiling enough to get to the positions they have reached and remain entirely off the radar when it comes to getting laid.

They don't have to be boorish, ham-fisted, demanding, threatening rapists. In most respects, Harvey is an outlier. He wasn't just trying to get laid. He wanted to hurt people. That is his central animating feature. That is why this is such a powerful story. The weird perversion of it. But most aren't like Harvey.

Men will continue to abuse their position of power and influence, but they will be very subtle about it. It's really not that hard to do since there are a great many attractive women who will do all of the heavy lifting for them. However, they had better start recording the transactions so that there is evidence against later claims of assault which are likely to get a lot of attention. Keep the iPhone constantly on record, guys, so that you have proof of consent.

- Krumhorn

Guildofcannonballs said...

"[as Barbara Stanwyck]
Colony guard: 'I don't understand. I don't understand it at all. I've never understood it, Walter. I just don't understand why I don't understand it all. I don't...
Terry Lennox: Okay, just remember that and you'll be alright." - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070334/quotes

Ken B said...

The market for movies is not the same as the market for moral panics. Althouse isn't part of the market for movies.

Breezy said...

All these rich leftwing democrat asshole actors living in mansions strewn around the globe and we are prodded and manipulated into worshiping these holier than thou leftwing theocrats.

It's time to stop.

Yes and let’s dispense with “the Academy”, whatever that is, and those self serving award shows where women and men show off their wares and are sent home with ridiculously pricey gift bags. Let the public vote via app from the entire set of the year’s movies. The winners get a trophy or certificate and a nice dinner with their family, like the rest of us.

Breezy said...

Honestly, watching those award shows will never be the same.

JAORE said...

"she "truly didn't" know "any of the more sordid Weinstein rumors."

I will choose to believe any actor that makes this, or a similar, statement.

Then I will choose to discount anything I ever hear pour out of their mouths because they are imbeciles.

wildswan said...

If I go to Amazon I get a book or article of clothing, a product which is not directly related to what Bezos does with money and power. If I go to movie made recently I watch an actress who - we now know - accepted being degraded by Harvey Weinstein as a condition of being selected to star in the movie. The movie, the thing I buy, and the exploitation are directly related.

What did Hollywood know? In my opinion they knew, in fact, that Weinstein was being utterly gross but, legally, they knew nothing. It was hard for Ronin the Warrior to get verifiable, undeniable facts and that's why he deserves credit for making sure that Hollywood and we, the Deplorables, have facts, not rumors. They can't "deny the truth" so now they've gone to "deflect the outrage." But the hammering Hollywood was giving the Delorables pretty well guarantees that outrage won't be deflected away from Hollywood.

rcocean said...

"My son saw it recently and said something like: "what a horrible movie! That is pure white male privilege."

What a weird kid.

Krumhorn said...

If you want some mental images to consider whether the mirror is really broken, picture Bob Iger. Bob Greenblatt. Ari Emanuel. Les Moonves. Kenny Ziffren. Brian Roberts. Steve Burke. JJ Abrams. Spielberg. Jon Feltheimer. Harry Sloan. Jim MacNamara.

I'm not saying that any of these guys harass women. To the contrary, none of them has any fear that stories like these are going to pop up with their names attached. But does anyone seriously believe that any of them has any trouble getting laid if they want?

That's not to say that there aren't guys out there who are more than a little worried. They should be. But the rest of the town will hum along normally while savoring the fall of a clumsy (but talented) beast.

These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one.

- Krumhorn

tcrosse said...

We are all fallen, even those of us with Amazon portals.

Except Streep, apparently.

tcrosse said...

The last truly honest film critic was Libby Gelman-Waxner. Look upon her works, ye mighty, and despair.

Quaestor said...

The most famous image of grinding up women was this famous Hustler cover.

Is there some deeper connection between that absurd publication and the fact that Larry Flynt has offered $10,000,000.00 for information leading to the impeachment of Donald Trump?

Sebastian said...

"Because movies are shot through with human exploitation, we should withhold our patronage." Of course, sensible conservatives withheld it long ago. But the exploitation takes many forms. The treatment of wiling women is the least of it.

"These big expensive projects create immense power that is used to grind up young women." Meryl Streep, Julia Roberts, Jennifer Lawrence, Nicole Kidman, Mila Kunis--"ground up"? More "ground up" than young men when they started?

OK, so let's grant woman-grinding is Hollywood's worst sin. So what does it say not about Hollywood but about women, supposedly equal, equally creative, equally entrepreneurial, equally talented? For decades, they acquiesced, they failed to build their own power centers, they failed to compete. For decades, women kept right on watching, and the "grinding" was supported eagerly by female audiences.

Darrell said...

The best use of a grinder in Hustler was a comic that showed a couple of police detectives looking at a meat grinder, with a severed human arm with hand on the crank. The caption? Most determined suicide I ever saw.

Jupiter said...

The American economy provides vast opportunities, most of which are at the disposition of a single person. Presumably, that circumstance is exploited regularly, to obtain a variety of unearned benefits. What is so special about movies? At a guess,

1 - The people seeking those opportunities are young and attractive.
2 - The rewards are immense, but go only to a few.

But it is also possible that people like Weinstein entered that profession precisely in order to exploit those circumstances.

Johnny Sokko said...

All these Hollywood industry folks running around saying "they didn't know" sound like the German population in May of 1945 after the Allies liberated the death camps.

It is absolute and complete bullshit.

Jupiter said...

And the young attractive people are seeking those opportunities precisely so that they can trade on their good looks. How many young women do you suppose took pains to put themselves where Harvey Weinstein might take a fancy to them? How many young men were disappointed to discover he doesn't do boys?

Laslo Spatula said...

"Harvey? It's Clooney..."

"George! Everything's going to shit, man! They're making me out to be a monster!"

"Uh...It's going to get worse, Harvey. Brad's going to come forward..."

"No! Pitt -- that fucking motherfucker! What's he going to say?"

"You know what he's going to say, Harvey."

"He's not going to tell about the Ass Parties, is he?"

"He's going to talk about the Ass Parties, Harvey."

"The Ass Parties: that's REALLY going to fuck me up!"

"He has pictures..."

"Pictures? He's got pictures of the Ass Parties?"

"Brad's got pictures of the Ass Parties, Harvey."

"I knew the Ass Parties were a step too far..."

"I tried to tell you, Harvey. This is Hollywood: you can't hide Ass Parties forever."

"I LIKED the Ass Parties! Everyone had a good time!"

"Well, it seems that some of the people now regret participating in the Ass Parties."

"Regret is for fucking losers, George. They come to my Ass Parties and have a good time, and now they stab me in the back!"

"it's a tough business, Harvey..."

"Well, here's what's going to happen: you tell Brad that if he goes forward about the Ass Parties then I am going to release the photos of him with an under-aged girl!"

"You have photos of Brad Pitt with an under-age girl?"

"Not yet -- but Brad doesn't know that."

"What if he has never been with an under-age girl, Harvey?"

"He's a Hollywood Star, Clooney -- of COURSE he's been with an under-age girl...!"

I am Laslo.

Hyphenated American said...

Bill Clinton, a famous liberal feminist hero should challenge Harvey Weinstein to a duel. A sword fight at dawn.

I wonder though if their swords have already crossed before. Maybe once or twice at Cannes, during the movie festival. Inadvertently. During a lively threesome discussion about the vagina monologues.

Can Laslo hear me?

Jupiter said...

The story, no doubt apocryphal, is that Winston Churchill was seated next to a very attractive woman at a dinner party. Sometime after the third bottle of wine was served, he turned to her and murmured, "You are so lovely! Will you sleep with me for a million pounds?"

She turned quite pale, and then quite red, and then she said, "Why yes, I suppose I would."

"Will you sleep with me for ten pounds?"

"Ten pounds! What do you think I am, a common whore?"

"We have already established that. Now we're just haggling about the price."

Laslo Spatula said...

Speaking of Winston Churchill...

From Michael O’Donoghue’s The Churchill Wit:

When the noted playwright George Bernard Shaw sent him two tickets to the opening night of his new play with a note that read: “Bring a friend, if you have one,” Churchill, not to be outdone, promptly wired back: “You and your play can go fuck yourselves.”

At an elegant dinner party, Lady Astor once leaned across the table to remark, “If you were my husband, Winston, I’d poison your coffee.”
“And if you were my wife, I’d beat the shit out of you,” came Churchill’s unhesitating retort.

Churchill was known to drain a glass or two and, after one particularly convivial evening, he chanced to encounter Miss Bessie Braddock, a Socialist member of the House of Commons, who, upon seeing his condition, said, “Winston, you’re drunk.” Mustering all his dignity, Churchill drew himself up to his full height, cocked an eyebrow and rejoined, “Shove it up your ass, you ugly cunt.”

Shortly after Churchill had grown a moustache, he was accosted by a certain young lady whose political views were in direct opposition to his own. Fancying herself something of a wag, she exclaimed, “Mr. Churchill, I care for neither your politics nor your moustache.”
Unabashed, the young statesman regarded her quietly for a moment, then wryly commented, “Suck my dick.”

Churchill was given to reading to reading in the bathtub and, while staying at the White House, he became so engrossed in an account of the Battle of Fonteney that he forgot President Roosevelt was due to drop by to discuss the upcoming conference in Yalta. At the appointed hour, the president was wheeled into Churchill’s quarters only to be informed that the prime minister had not finished bathing. Roosevelt was about to apologize for the intrusion and depart when Churchill, puffing his customary cigar, strode into the room stark naked and greeted the nonplussed world leader with a terse, “What are you staring at, homo?”

I am Laslo.

Sebastian said...

"We have already established that. Now we're just haggling about the price."

Come on people, read some comments. Let's avoid cliches. Sure, we allow second-rate lefties to propagate their assigned memes, and the LLR to rant on Trump, but this blog has standards. This old tale, already worn, was mentioned in another thread the other day.

It does establish the character of the narrator pretty well.

wwww said...

I thought it going to say what I've been saying: Because movies are shot through with human exploitation, we should withhold our patronage.


Movies might become less important because of the internet & netflix and amazon.

Not to say the obvious, but if millions of people won't stop looking at internet porn, why would they stop watching PG or R rated movies? My theory: People almost never give up things they want. It's easy to become a vegetarian if you don't much like meat. I don't think people who love movies will boycott. The people who watch netflix will continue to watch netflix.


Cruising Troll said...

Bullcrap. With the exception of the abuse of child actors, none of it is exploitation. The actors and actresses know what they're getting into. At least the porn industry makes no pretensions about it.

These are ADULTS. Treat them like adults, and EXPECT them to behave like adults. Stop allowing women to "have it both ways". Either they are "strong, independent women", or they need protection. They can walk away any time they want. If these bimbos & bimbubbas want us to white knight for them, then by God in Heaven we demand that they treat us like their lords, rather than like shit covered peasants.

Earnest Prole said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Earnest Prole said...

Think about who you are actually harming when you decide to become a virtue signalling ass.

Exactly. A motion picture represents a collaboration of thousands of people, the vast majority of whom perform their craft professionally and diligently, and share absolutely nothing with the morality of the Harvey Weinsteins of the world.

TBlakely said...

"The movie business needs to go all Elizabethan and cast men in women's roles. That'll solve the casting couch problem."

Lol, you seriously underestimate the perversion in Hollywood.


On a side note, I want to know which female stars married, feminist Joss Whedon banged from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.... not for prurient reasons, trust me.

Howard said...

Johnny Sokko said...All these Hollywood industry folks running around saying "they didn't know" sound like the German population in May of 1945 after the Allies liberated the death camps.It is absolute and complete bullshit.

Exactly and it also extends to the population as a hole. Anyone expressing shock or vowing to boycott movies are virtue signalling. The fact is that any economic system favors the functioning psychopath and we all benefit from their monomaniacal ambition and creativity.

Jupiter said...

Sebastian said...

"It does establish the character of the narrator pretty well."

I'm with the lady in question. There's a lot of things I would do for a million dollars, that I wouldn't do for ten. If the objection is moral, that is hypocrisy. If the objection is economic, it is haggling.

buwaya said...

Churchill was usually short of funds.
He inherited much more aristocratic breeding than bucks.
So he too made some questionable associations with the press barons of the day, and others among British tycoons. To what extent he compromised his politics is hard to say. Even Manchester, a bit of a hagiographer sometimes, hints a bit.

Biff said...

I've posted this comment elsewhere, but maybe the American Humane Association can broaden its mission and certify new movies and tv shows with a disclaimer:

"No people were sexually coerced, assaulted, or otherwise harmed during the making of this motion picture."

Sebastian said...

"If the objection is moral, that is hypocrisy. If the objection is economic, it is haggling."

If there is no objection at all, but instigation instead, that puts you below the hagglee, character-wise. If you retell the story with relish, all the more so.

Forgive my shortsighted moralism. Even cynical conservatives sometimes have had enough.

Jeff Teal said...

If HWs peccadilloes are now being exposed will the Hollywood gay mafia be far behind?Is this what Hollywood is really afraid of?Oh the hypocrisy! This is the same Media Industrial complex that destroyed Corey Haim s career(see Barbara Walters).In case anyone is wondering the fullback on my HS team went to Hollywood in the late 70s and was one of the first victims of AIDS.Whether he was or wasn't we still don't know.What happened?Althouse's uncertainty?Something else.And Holly weird has beeen all sanctimonious about the Catholic church for decades.

Martin said...

Why should I pay any attention to a movie critic of 10+ years who had no idea about Harvey Weinstein? To whom does she talk and what kind of reporter is she?

Bad Lieutenant said...

will the Hollywood gay mafia be far behind?Is this what Hollywood is really afraid of? Oh the hypocrisy!


But teh ghey is okay!

Oh?

Hollywood says so!

Oh...

Ritchie The Riveter said...

Exactly. A motion picture represents a collaboration of thousands of people, the vast majority of whom perform their craft professionally and diligently, and share absolutely nothing with the morality of the Harvey Weinsteins of the world.

And the vast majority of that vast majority, are paid up front before we get to the buy-it/boycott decision diamond. They aren't hurt by the boycott.

It is the producers, directors, and stars who are hurt most by a boycott ... the latter two, if they choose to increase their take by taking a cut of the profits instead of a smaller up-front amount.

These are the ones who have an outsize influence upon our society ... and start to believe they are above law and morality. You could say that a movie boycott usually punishes all the right people.

Those star personalities who wish to preserve their clean reputation, need to pay attention to whom they are working for/with.