January 13, 2018

"What did the men with Donald Trump do when he spoke of ‘shithole countries’?"

Asks Philip Kennicott, the "culture critic" at The Washington Post.

Trump has denied making the remark, it's worth mentioning (even as I feel I should check Twitter to see if he's reframed that denial since I looked last (no, he's just blaming the Democrats for missing the opportunity to fix DACA)).

But I like Kennicott's refocussing of the question. (It's like in the #MeToo discussions when we shift from looking at the accused offender to wondering what the other people who saw what was happening did about it.)

Kennicott says:
What I want to know is how the men in the room with him reacted. This is the dinner table test: When you are sitting and socializing with a bigot, what do you do when he reveals his bigotry? I’ve seen it happen, once, when I was a young man, and I learned an invaluable lesson. An older guest at a formal dinner said something blatantly anti-Semitic. I was shocked and laughed nervously. Another friend stared at his plate silently. Another excused himself and fled to the bathroom. And then there was the professor, an accomplished and erudite man, who paused for a moment, then slammed his fist on the table and said, “I will never listen to that kind of language, so either you will leave, or I will leave.” The offender looked around the table, found no allies and left the gathering. I don’t know if he felt any shame upon expulsion.

Did Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) threaten to leave the Oval Office? Did Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) speak sharply to the president, saying no one should speak like that, not in the White House, not in the United States, not in decent society? (He did, at least the next morning when speaking to the media.) Did anyone suggest that perhaps the president should wash his mouth out with soap and take a time out to think about what he just did?
I would like to see more in-person confrontation. It's kind of weaselly to sit there and listen and then afterwards talk to the press and let them — who didn't experience the context or have the ability to shape and propel the conversation — do your chiding and shaming for you.

When I think about this subject, the name that comes to mind is Eartha Kitt:

329 comments:

1 – 200 of 329   Newer›   Newest»
Inga said...

Good question! I wondered the same thing. Is there no transcript of this meeting? I suppose there isn’t. Why were there so many Republicans and only one Democrat? I’ve read that Durbin and Graham were not expecting the others to be there. Why were they there? Graham needs to be more forthcoming, his statement yesterday was sort of weasel-ish.

n.n said...

So, if there is not trouble and misfortune in those countries, then why are ostensibly "charitable" organizations there? Why is there immigration reform and even mass exodus from those countries? Why are there international Peacekeepers permanently stationed in many of those countries? Why is the hypothesis of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming exploited to force redistributive change?

It seems like they want to have the baby and abort her, too. The veil of privacy and obfuscation for the conditions and practice they are defending needs to be lifted.

jj121957 said...

Just saw a video on the "Twitchy" website of Senator Graham calling Mexico a Hellhole in a hearing a few years ago. Clutch the pearls.

Achilles said...

He allowed Americans to do what the citizens of every other country in the world do: Ask what is in it for us?

The Godfather said...

What Durbin did, apparently, is leak anonymously to the NYT, which published the anonymous leak. All those who are moaning and groaning about how calling some countries shitholes is damaging our international relations need to blame Durbin and the NYT, because if not for them, Trump's statement (IF he made it) would be a tree falling in the forest.

Fernandistein said...

When you are sitting and socializing with a bigot, what do you do when he reveals his bigotry.

Well, I stop reading his stupid article.

Of Crudeness and Truth

Nothing scandalizes a leftist like the truth. Point out that women and men are different, that black Americans commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime, that most terrorist acts are committed by Muslims, and the Left leaps to its collective feet in openmouthed shock, like Margaret Dumont after a Groucho Marx wisecrack. This is racism! This is sexism! This is some sort of phobia! I’m shocked, shocked to find facts being spoken in polite company!

No one is really shocked, of course. This is simply a form of bullying. The Left has co-opted our good manners and our good will in order to silence our opposition to their bad policies. The idea is to make it seem impolite and immoral to mention the obvious.

...
Let’s state the obvious. Some countries are shitholes. To claim that this is racist is racist.

++

Unfortunately that guy had a PC attack after that last sentence, so I stopped reading that article, too. That PC bullshit is so phony and boring.

EDH said...

This is the dinner table test: When you are sitting and socializing with a bigot, what do you do when he reveals his bigotry?

Indeed. So, in a room full of politicians in both opposition parties, I take it as prima facie evidence that Trump didn't say anything "bigoted" and that any "shit hole" comment was interpreted by them at the time as descriptive of the material circumstances within those countries that people most seek to flee, including destitution, crime and corruption.

Only later did they see either the opportunity or the need to virtue-signal.

n.n said...

Libya is still a shitshow, and Ukraine was s shitshow before international backing for the native refugees created by the Western-backed coup in Kiev.

gspencer said...

"What I want to know is how the men in the room with [Trump] reacted."

They understood exactly what Trump said and how he meant it. Just how many of those Democrats choose Haiti for their vacations. But because the lefties in that room saw they could use it to kick Trump in the shins, that's what they did. But no one is fooled. They know, and they know that we know, and that they know that we know that they know.

Achilles said...

Fortunately for us idiots like Inga don’t realize calling the truth racist is a losing strategy.

Fernandistein said...

The Godfather said...
What Durbin did, apparently, is leak anonymously to the NYT, which published the anonymous leak.


From the article above:
(Personally, my first thought on hearing about the remark was: “What squirrely little tattle-tale of a weasel went running to the press with that?” But never mind. That’s just me.)

Inga said...

“Just saw a video on the "Twitchy" website of Senator Graham calling Mexico a Hellhole in a hearing a few years ago. Clutch the pearls.”

Who cares if the country was called a derogatory name? That’s not the point. The point is complaining about people from those countries seeking haven here and then asking why we can’t have more Norwegians coming here instead.

Inga said...

“Fortunately for us idiots...”

You said it so I didn’t have to. Thanks!

Quayle said...

It is impossible for anyone in these enlightened and progressive times to actually run the dinner table test.

The only test being run these days is the "too pure to even be in the same room as someone that I reasonably or unreasonable consider to be a bigot" test.

That test is run when the pure and self-righteous bigot-sniffer makes all possible efforts to avoid being tainted by casual or remote association with a suspected or deemed bigot, and stays home or refuses the invitation to the dinner itself.

Tim at large said...

Just a week ago Inga was protesting that Trump was about to ship 200K "temporary" refugees back to some Central American shithole! But sure, let's spend our energy going after whoever was the first to stop jeering at Goldstein!

Tim at large said...

Seeking haven from what,Inga? A shithole?

n.n said...

Diversity, including color, is bigoted.

Political congruence is bigoted.

Redistributive and retributive change are bigoted.

Witch hunts and baby hunts are bigoted.

Abortion rites, including selective-child and recycled-child, are bigoted.

Social justice adventures that open abortion fields, force immigration reform, and left shitshows are bigoted.

Public lynchings (e.g. trial by press), denying civil rights, and conflating logical domains are bigoted.

Exploitation of third-world nations with conditions of trouble and misfortune by ostensibly "charitable" foundations and NGOs is bigoted.

Spying, colluding, and denying the Democrat nomination to the Jew and other actions to influence the election is bigoted.

#SheKnew, #HerChoice, #SheProgressed, and #SheColluded are bigoted.

Lewis Wetzel said...

If you are white, and an illegal immigrant from Mexico says anything bad about Mexico, you should sock him, and then report him to immigration. Doing anything else would mark you as a bigot. I suppose if you had a gun, you could shoot him.

dreams said...

Maybe Durbin is helping the CIA.

"Last February, following the Presidential inauguration of Donald Trump, Moby posted on social media claiming to have insider information on connections between the Trump administration and Russia. The producer/DJ said that “after talking to friends in DC,” he had allegedly learned that the Fusion GPS dossier was “100% real” and that the Russian government was “blackmailing” the president. Now, in a new interview with WFPK in Louisville, Kentucky, Moby has doubled down on his claims (as CoS points out)."

https://pitchfork.com/news/moby-says-cia-agents-asked-him-to-spread-the-word-about-trump-and-russia/

hombre said...

Bigot? Racist? White supremacist? Seriously?

Are these moron journalists and politicians pretending that the people fleeing these countries aren't doing it because the countries are shitholes? (Except the terrorists who are otherwise motivated.)

Q. "Tell me, sir, why should we let you immigrate to the US from Somalia?" A. "Because Somalia is a shithole." Democrats: "Okay, sir. You're in. Remember us when you get here."

gspencer said...

Fernandistein, at 11:18, is on the money,

Dixie_Sugarbaker said...

What did they do? They nodded and agreed because it was the truth. Then Durbin came back to his office, was told by leadership that Trump was polling well, told his aide to leak, and then acted horrified and went before the cameras.

GWash said...

My guess is that most of the republicans in the room were too shocked to hear the 'leader' of the free world, the president of the US admit to his racist tendencies so openly... it's kind of like if your priest stubbed his toe and cursed, you'd probably be too shocked to call him on it... let's face it the white supremacist in charge is really out of touch with the rest of us and has lived in this ego bubble for so long that nobody but himself matters.. Graham said something but i think Durbin was gob smacked and really couldn't believe what he had heard.. we are more doomed with trump than with any 'deep'state fiction you guys can come up with.. unless, that is, you are on board with him in promoting a caucasion america... it would great if we could all take a dna test to see who really is white and then give them a medal (not that they earned it since we don't get to pick our parents)

Achilles said...

Inga said...
“Fortunately for us idiots...”

You said it so I didn’t have to. Thanks

Clever selective editing. I know you are too stupid to actually participate in a rational discussion. So we will consider this a slightly better than average Inga contribution.

You are really stupid.

rcocean said...

The problem is:

We don't know what Trump ACTUALLY SAID. So, it's hard to judge. Why should anyone be upset at someone calling a foreign country a "Shithole"?

People talk differently in private. I've referred to bosses, that I actually didn't dislike, as "Assholes" and worse in private. I've been in conversations where my bosses called other department heads "those shitheads" and worse - even though they got along fine in public.

How many of have referred to our relatives or friends by less complimentary names IN PRIVATE - even though we love/like them?

This made-up "controversy" stinks like a shithole. Its an irrelevant He said/he said, that belongs in junior High clique not a Congressional/POTUS meeting on an important topic.

GWash said...

rcocean, i think we do know what he said, it's been reported, repeated and validated..
the fact that you may not believe it another matter...

dreams said...

And this.

"The biggest scandal of our time is the manner in which the Democratic Party, under Barack Obama, weaponized the intelligence agencies and the FBI for political purposes. An obscure news story–obscure but for the fact that it was linked by Drudge–suggests that the CIA may have used entertainment personalities to smear Donald Trump shortly after his inauguration."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/01/did-cia-use-entertainers-to-smear-trump.php

rcocean said...

As for what's beyond the pale in a private conversation. I don't get upset at what people say about THINGS IN GENERAL.

Obviously, if someone makes a hurtful remark that effects someone in the room, I speak up. But I'm not going to be big drama queen and flounce from the room because someone used an RANDOM ethnic slur or something unkind.

Of course, some people are tedious bores, and will drone on and make stupid political comments, curse like sailors, make endless nasty remarks about other people, and relgions, in which case, I avoid them like all BORES.

Paco Wové said...

"we are more doomed with trump than with any 'deep'state fiction you guys can come up with"

"Doomed"? Why? What "doom" do you forsee?

Achilles said...

GWash said...
My guess is that most of the republicans in the room were too shocked to hear the 'leader' of the free world, the president of the US admit to his racist tendencies so openly...

Nobody thought calling shithole countries shitholes was racist. The democrats/media know they can’t provide a rational reason for Americans to allow them to import a new poor uneducated electorate so they are pulling out the race card.

The peons in the democrat party are acting against their own interests to help a tribe that wants them poor and wants to turn the US into Mexico. You really are stupid people.

Tim at large said...

One of n.n.'s phrases that I really like is "bullhorn conviction." Now the guy who bought a golf club in wasp racist Palm Beach, and created a shit storm by opening it to blacks and Jews is a racist for asking a legitimate question in colorful language.

Read how Flagler cleared Palm Beach Island some time.

Opinh Bombay said...

What sane human believes what Dick Durbin says without corroborating evidence?

rcocean said...

"rcocean, i think we do know what he said, it's been reported, repeated and validated..
the fact that you may not believe it another matter..."

Once again its about "belief". We don't have the facts. We have he said/he said. If you want to BELIEVE, that's your business.

Not only that, I'm not going to BELIEVE a shithead like Durbin about anything. Notice that he was talking about "chain migration" in 2010 and 2013, but now its "racist". He's a lying piece of shit like Harry Reid.

Bill Peschel said...

Some thoughts:

1. If we get President Winfrey, we can look forward to four more years of being called racist and sexist every time her policies are criticized.

2. So if he praised the Dominican Republic, he wouldn't have been called racist? Because by no measure would anyone call it a shithole.

3. Remember when the cameras were rolling during Trump's meeting? Remember when his guests stood up and said they're rather negotiate in private? No, me neither.

4. Trump has been demonstrating repeatedly who's the Alpha in the room, and it's none of them.

rcocean said...

The upside of this whole nonsense is that Trump will stop treating Miss Lindsey as a potential ally. Graham has shown, once again, that he more interested in being liked by the WaPo and the NYT then doing a real Senate work.

Tim at large said...

What happened in Palm Beach would make a great movie. Hint, the black descendants of slaves were moved to the same neighborhood where the show Cops was originally filmed.

n.n said...

"bullhorn conviction."

That could work. My main point was to characterize "trial by press" in principle and practice, as a "bullhorn prosecution" a.k.a. witch trial, a.k.a. public lynching.

rcocean said...

Has that pompous Cuck Mitt Romney weighed-in and told us how he "Hates racism"?

Inga said...

“Just a week ago Inga was protesting that Trump was about to ship 200K "temporary" refugees back to some Central American shithole.”

I don’t recall that Tim, but it would certainly be something I could’ve said. As I’ve said several times now, the issue isn’t calling a shithole a shithole, it’s saying you don’t want to give those people from those shitholes haven here and would rather have Norwegians ( who don’t need haven, but are white Europeans). I agree with Trump that those countries he mentioned may be shitholes, I disagree with his bigotry expressed by his lamentation over the lack of white European immigration in the same numbers.

I must ask you Tim, do you ever sleep? As I checked the comments posted in threads from yesterday as I usually do before reading today’s blogposts, I noticed that you were commenting at 3 AM or thereabouts and then in today’s threads I saw you commenting again bright and early. Lack of sleep can affect cognition, look at Trump, some of his oddest tweets came in the wee hours. Try chamomile tea, it’s relaxing.

GWash said...

Rcocean none of the folks that were in the room when the president used that phrase repeatedly have disagreed with Durbin's characterization or his quoting the president... they have all been asked and denied hearing it (lying) or stated the reports of his words were accurate...

rhhardin said...

There's nothing wrong with the shithole remark in the first place.

Go to analysis rather than outrage.

What's easier than arguing with somebody who's wrong.

n.n said...

Shithead, that's another one. We're up to four.

Shitlist. Shithole. Shitshow.

james james said...

can·dor (ˈkandər)
noun
the quality of being open and honest in expression; frankness.
synonyms: frankness, openness, honesty, candidness, truthfulness, sincerity, forthrightness, directness, plain-spokenness, bluntness, straightforwardness, outspokenness; informal: telling it like it is.

Yes, let's make it so every discussion, even private, must be couched in platitudes and masks and deflection.

No need for a solution when you are not allowed to speak frankly about the problem. Because if you use enough of the right words and phrases there isn't even a problem anymore.

-jj

Inga said...

Clever selective editing. I know you are too stupid to actually participate in a rational discussion. “You are really stupid.”

Did you ever learn how to use a comma? LOL.

You consider the conspiracy laden extremist bullshit that you post “rational”? Do you have any clue as to how nutty you come across in your commentary?

Paco Wové said...

"none of the folks that were in the room when the president used that phrase repeatedly have disagreed with Durbin's characterization or his quoting the president"

followed by:

"they have all been asked and denied hearing it"

In other words, they disagreed.

Is English not your first language?

GWash said...

james - try talking like that your boss or the next time you talk to your pastor... how about decency, propriety, good taste, decorum, respectability, gentility... would you talk like that if you were in front of a crowd, leading a meeting or talking to you mom... is so shame on you...

GWash said...

paco, that is a dodge to answering the question and YOU KNOW IT..

Paco Wové said...

This reminds me greatly of that time some Democratic congressmen took a stroll through a Tea Party demonstration so they could later claim to have been spat upon, and then the D.'s and their friends could screech about racism over and over and over rather actually discuss and analyze real issues.

rhhardin said...

Candor was originally seeing the best in people rather than the worst.

Affectation of candor is common enough—one meets with it everywhere. But to be candid without ostentation or design -- to take the good of everybody's character and make it still better, and say nothing of the bad -- belongs to you alone. (Jane Austen)

Drago said...

In addition to the lefties demanding that we believe, really believe, that you can change your biology just by wishing it were so, pretending that only white people can be racist and are uniquely evil, that islam is really all about peace, the lefties and their LLR allies now demand that we pretend that s***hole countries are really paradise on earth.

It's a shame that Hillary was defeated by Trump. We could really have had some class in the White House again....

“Where is the G-damn f**king flag? I want the G-damn f**king flag up every f**king morning at f**king sunrise.”
(From the book “Inside The White House” by Ronald Kessler, p. 244 – Hillary to the staff at the Arkansas Governor’s mansion on Labor Day, 1991)

F**k off! It’s enough that I have to see you shit-kickers every day, I’m not going to talk to you too!! Just do your G*damn job and keep your mouth shut.”
(From the book “American Evita” by Christopher Anderson, p. 90 – Hillary to her State Trooper bodyguards after one of them greeted her with “Good morning.”

It's a real shame Hillary didn't win.

It was really our loss, wasn't it?

LOL

Inga said...

“U.S. Sen. Tim Scott said he talked to fellow South Carolina Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham about hearing President Donald Trump's "shithole countries" comment and Graham confirmed to him the president said it.

Graham, Scott said, told him the reported comments are “basically accurate.”

“If that comment is accurate, the comment is incredibly disappointing,” Scott also told The Post and Courier on Friday morning.”

https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/sen-tim-scott-trump-s-shithole-countries-comment-is-accurate/article_e99c2fba-f7a9-11e7-a381-d7950e17b81f.html

Drago said...

GWash: "james - try talking like that your boss or the next time you talk to your pastor... how about decency, propriety, good taste, decorum, respectability, gentility... would you talk like that if you were in front of a crowd, leading a meeting or talking to you mom... is so shame on you..."

LOL

Oh you delicate little flower you!

Would you mind telling us how you reacted when Biden was heard PUBLICLY saying "This is a big F'n deal"?

Don't bother, we already know!

Paco Wové said...

What dodge? What question? You can't read my mind as well as you apparently think you can, GWash.

walter said...

Hard to believe "Putin's cock holster" could coarsen the culture this way.
As GWash would say, "is so shame on us".

GWash said...

Drago, i can curse and have been cursed at by the best of them... so i'm not shocked by the words, but by the time and place and the sentiment of the words... i expect better of biden, clinton, the presidanet and you ... trump has no self awareness and can blurt out anything including state secrets to the russian ambassador and then laugh about it...

Drago said...

And I love how suddenly the lefty hypocrites who had no problem with certain fellows shoving cigars up interns deciding that a comment in a small group in a private meeting is magically equivalent to saying something to your pastor, or to a large public crowd, etc.

That's just one more way you know how full of s*** GWash and the rest of little lying pals have become.

If it were so bad, they wouldn't have to "help" the story out by muddying the water about every single facet of the conversation.

But we know what this is really all about.

The DOJ IG investigation report has already been released showing massive surveillance abuses by obama and crew, the economy is picking up steam faster than any stupid lefty said was possible, black unemployment rate is at 30 year lows, the tax bill benefits are starting to hit 90% of the taxpayers pocketbooks which will put the obvious lie to what the lefties have been spewing, so......

....gotta change the story.

Let's just say the dems need a "s***show" (thanks Obama!) to deflect.

The dems can certainly count on their LLR lapdogs to help but they need to do more.

LarsPorsena said...

While the bien pensants parse the meaning of 'shithole' and ponder its context
and implications, the great unwashed wonder why its political class can't get its shit
together.

james james said...

"GWash: "james - try talking like that your boss or the next time you talk to your pastor."

If my pastor is more concerned about my word choices than a frank discussion of the soul then I have no need for a pastor.

If your pastor is easily offended then he can choose to tend to only those without sin.

It probably is a pain in his ass to deal with all of the other motherfuckers.

-jj

GWash said...

No paco, i was talking about cotton who denied hearing the presidents comment, not you... and walter nice snark, sorry for the typo...

Chuck said...

No, Althouse, you have this all wrong.

This wasn’t a dinner party. It was an scheduled meeting in the Oval Office, arranged to discuss DACA and immigration reform at a time when the discussion is, partly for Congress’ own self-imposed imperatives, an urgent one.

So that business about walking out is inapposite. We don’t walk out of depositions or motion hearings if we are offended by the opposition. You keep fighting, under the rules.

And Althouse you keep playing this dishonest game of normalizing Trump’s choice of words; posting about the many varied uses and deployment of the word “shitholes” through the history of the English language. In an effort to de-vilify Trump’s use of the word.

And I say to you and your commentariat now as I have before: just choose, please. Choose between the option that Trump really said it, and it was okay because it is what so many people think privately anyway... Or get on board with Trump and deny that he said such a thing.

As always, the big thing for me is that with Trump, we can’t even get a straight answer about what exactly it was that he said. And Trump is such a regular, habitual, shameless liar, my starting point is figuring out what the truth is and whether (and why) Trump is lying from the start

Drago said...

GWash: "Drago, i can curse and have been cursed at by the best of them... so i'm not shocked by the words, but by the time and place and the sentiment of the words... i expect better of biden, clinton, the presidanet and you..."

LOL

You never said a word about Biden, or Clinton, or Obama.

You are just another full of s*** lefty trying to leverage something into something its not for political purposes.

I suggest you send a letter of apology for yourself for insulting all of Clinton's sexual assault and rape victims by continuing to support him even after you and all the rest of the left #Knew.

Clean up your own house. But you won't. It's 100% Virtue Signaling all the time with you liars.

walter said...

The others in that room aren't Trump's boss..and certainly not his pastor.
Squeaky clean Durbin calling Trump in for confession.
That's a "big fucking deal", as Biden would say.

Bay Area Guy said...

In college, the Left doesn't debate issues on the merits, they think they can win any debate by exposing their opponent as a "racist"

So, that's what these Dem idiots in Congress are trying to do here with a censure vote.

tcrosse said...

Not everyone can recognize a shithole when it's right under their nose.

GWash said...

james, you're missing the point... it's not that your pastor would be offended by your cursing, it's that you would NEVER talk to him or her that way.. would you? There is a time and place for frankness.. unfortunately trump is so unaware that he hasn't a clue about what role he is in now... it's not the apprentice reality show..this IS reality so he has to man up and live up to his new responsibilities as president...

Drago said...

“If you want to remain on this detail, get your f**king ass over here and grab those bags!”
(From the book “The First Partner” p. 259 – Hillary to a Secret Service Agent who was reluctant to carry her luggage because he wanted to keep his hands free in case of an incident.)

AllenS said...

The 1st Amendment also covers POTUS Trump to say any god damned mother fucking thing that he wants to. Stop this juvenile nonsense.

james james said...

Thou shalt see more clearly to cast out the mote of thy brother's eye when thou first cast out the beam stuck in thine's own ass.

Something like that.

-jj

Drago said...

“Get f**ked! Get the f**k out of my way!!! Get out of my face!!!”
(From the book “Hillary’s Scheme” p. 89 – Hillary’s various comments to her Secret Service detail agents.)

“Stay the f**k back, stay the f**k away from me! Don’t come within ten yards of me, or else! Just f**king do as I s ay, Okay!!!?”
(From the book “Unlimited Access”, by Clinton FBI Agent in Charge, Gary Aldrige, p. 139 – Hillary screaming at her Secret Service detail.)

LLR Chuck hardest hit.

GWash said...

james, if that's your attitude, then i would not expect to be reading any more commentary by you until you have perfected yourself... my feeling is that we all have rafters in our eyes that need removing...

Paco Wové said...

GWash, you can't possibly believe that politicians do not use profanity in private meetings.

rehajm said...

Help us Watergate Trump Wimpy Lindsey.

Oh please oh please oh please!

walter said...

“If you want to remain on this detail, get your f**king ass over here and grab those bags!”
I'm picturing the agent reaching for them..then gently setting them down as he sees the generosity in her offering.

rightguy2 said...

Real guys are confrontational. Guys who talk behind your back are not manly at all- they are pussies.

Achilles said...

GWash said...
Drago, i can curse and have been cursed at by the best of them... so i'm not shocked by the words, but by the time and place and the sentiment of the words... i expect better of biden, clinton, the presidanet and you ... trump has no self awareness and can blurt out anything including state secrets to the russian ambassador and then laugh about it...

Your selective outrage is par for the course.

Hillary was widely documented as cruelly abusive to the people that were forced to work under her in language that was far more coarse.

Bill Clinton Raped women. Both were unbelievably corrupt.

Joe Biden walked and swam nude in front of SS personnel on his detail. Made jokes at the women. Said numerous crude things in public. Molested numerous children in public.

Senator Menendez had sex with underage girls repeatedly. Took bribes.

Emanuel, Perez et al. Numerous examples of language to get mad about.

But like a good little leftist sheep the media/democrats tell you what to get mad about and on cue you get mad about it. You don't know why and you don't have a rational thought in your head about why it is different but there you go.

You are a tool.

glenn said...

The only remaining question, if the countries named aren’t shitholes why do so many people want to leave and go where the Anglos made the rules?

Chuck said...

Blogger AllenS said...
The 1st Amendment also covers POTUS Trump to say any god damned mother fucking thing that he wants to. Stop this juvenile nonsense.

Whaddya think, Meade? Gratuitous profanity? Judicious profanity? Just plain fun profanity?

Here’s what I think: OWN IT! WHY ARE WE STILL WONDERING WHAT TRUMP SAID? IF HE IS STILL CLAIMING HE DIDN’T SAY IT, THEN THAT REQUIRES SOME EXPLAINING. IF TRUMP DID SAY IT, THEN OWN IT AND STOP THE PHONY DENIALS.

GWash said...

this was not really what i would consider a private meeting... and this is not just cursing, not just letting the fbomb fly, this was a clearly racist remark... so i know and have been in meetings where the fbomb was used and it was almost always followed by 'sorry'... so to me based on the things i've read and based on trump's history, no this was not just cursing for effect or by accident...this was some more primal part of his personality coming popping out..he's a racist, why can't we just admit it?... we all are to a degree, it's what you do with that information that matters...

GWash said...

you all have a nice rest of your day...

Unknown said...

Whether or not the others in the room called him out on the shithole countries comment depends on their assessment of the power in the room. They were in the White House - advantage Trump. They were in the room to present him with their proposal, which he had requested - advantage Trump. They are members of a co-equal branch of our government - neutral power. So Trump was seen as having the superior position. His words therefore went unchallenged.

They all left the meeting and squealed to the press. Further evidence that they didn't directly or immediately challenge him. Doing so was an attempt to change the power dynamic in their favor.

-sw

Chuck said...


OpenID rightguy2 said...
Real guys are confrontational. Guys who talk behind your back are not manly at all- they are pussies.

Wasn’t it “John Miller” who first said that? Or was it “John Barron”?

Talk about weaselly gossip on a sociopathic scale.

Paco Wové said...

Whether or not Trump said it, "shithole" is not a racist remark.

james james said...

GWash said...
"james, if that's your attitude, then i would not expect to be reading any more commentary by you until you have perfected yourself."

I am not the one talking of perfection. I am the one talking about accepting imperfection to better converse freely.

That you think you are making a point: bring it up with your pastor. Once you determine how many angels can dance on the head of your particular pin I'd love to know the answer.

And you not reading my commentary affects me not at all.

If you read only those that have perfected themselves you only need a really small bookshelf. So that is nice.

-jj

Paco Wové said...

I would agree that, if he said it, it was a stupid thing to do, because it gave the Democrats an excuse to blow up any progress on immigration policy and screech hysterically about racism instead – Trump should realize that accusing Republicans of racism is to Democrats what rolling in feces is to dogs.

Unless I missed it, and some Democrats have put forth some concrete immigration proposals. If so, we could even... discuss them!

Tim at large said...

this was a clearly racist remark...

That’s what is called a stolen base. It is not clearly racist, it is only racist because Trump said it and you believe Trump is “clearly” a racist. Which he is not.

walter said...

Paco Wové said...Whether or not Trump said it, "shithole" is not a racist remark.
--
Well..as we see, when that's brought up the left shifts to "Norway means racist", because white..despite it being the last country he visited, making it a contextual reference point.
But this shitstorm via shithole is all about excluding context.
Along this line, maybe a lefty can offer a low criminality, low corruption, affluent country of self-sufficient populace that's equally "black" as Haiti.

sdharms said...

I can tell you what Dick Durbin did. He spent the rest of the evening trying to get his panties out of a wad. Do these guys never get tired of looking like a candy ass ?

bagoh20 said...

Were there children in the meeting, becuase it sure sounds like it.

I'm glad our leaders are tough serious people, and not a bridge club of puritan pearl clutchers gossiping about the neighbor who's dress showed some ankle.

Was Trump at a meeting of the Harper Valley PTA?



Rusty said...

Chuck
Get your own blog or STFU

Paco Wové said...

So, as of noon Eastern time, 13 Jan. 2018:

Hellhole: not racist
Shithole: racist

It's so exhausting to keep up.

Tim at large said...

I must ask you Tim, do you ever sleep?

No, I couldn’t sleep last night. But if you have noticed problems with my cognition, I would consider it a mitzvah for you to point them out! Logical errors, assertions of facts that are demonstrably false, that kind of thing.

I am newly 100% retired, so finding stuff to do is something of a challenge, I admit. Keeping to a schedule too. Maybe that’s why the old guys back in the day all watched Matlock, or that other detective show. Now it’s all on demand! What’s your excuse for commenting here so much?

bagoh20 said...

So instead of Norway, to be not racist, if Trump was to pick a predominantly Black nation to contrast with the squalor of Haiti, what nation should he have mentioned?

Tim at large said...

I, for one, admit to appreciating Chuck’s comments on this blog. He is one of the few, if not only, heterodox (to this blog’s commentariat, anyways) commenters who backs his stuff up. Oh yeah, and since he is so humorless 98% of the time, when he does get off a joke, it’s pretty damn funny.

Mostly we get Magik Eight Ball commenter’s like Earnest Prole, who are scared shitless of making a factual assertion.

james james said...

I have no need to read further. Someone used ALL CAPS SO I KNOW THE ISSUE HAS BEEN SETTLED.

-jj

Rusty said...


GWash said...
this was not really what i would consider a private meeting... and this is not just cursing, not just letting the fbomb fly, this was a clearly racist remark.

Clearly it wasn't.

Tim at large said...

That’s a racist question bahoh20!

But you know what? India might be a country that we should give preferences to. Educated people who know how to run the machines that are doing more and more of the work we used to need unskilled labor for. China. Another one.

Why we need more cab drivers, for example, when self driving Uber is on the horizon, I don’t know. Why do we need so many lawn guys? Ever look at a movie from the seventies and notice any scenes shot outdoors? How did we ever live with such ragged landscaping? It’s almost as if just mowing the grass occasionally was, well, enough for the country to win two World Wars! Now we have armies of illegal aliens to spare us from that horrible fate!

The point is that we. don’t need the unskilled labor. The Democrats need more poor people, and they need ‘em now!

Anyway, off to Google to find good majority, or even strong plurality black nations for consideration in place of Norway!

Tim at large said...

James Garner! That was the guy on the show, Garner G A R N E R!

YoungHegelian said...

I have participated in many a conversation with folks on the Left & Right where amazingly hateful stuff came out. I have to tell you that if I dumped folks for examples of hateful rhetoric I'd have no far lefty friends remaining, & few of any political stripe.

My technique is to just say "Whoa! That sounds rather extreme! I don't believe you really mean that. You don't, do you?" And, nine times out of ten, they will realize they've said something intemperate & walk it back.

james james said...

SOMETHING I WONDER WHEN I READ SOMETHING IN ALL CAPS:

DID THE WRITER PURPOSEFULLY SWITCH ON 'CAPS LOCK', KNOWING THE FOLLOWING THOUGHT WOULD REQUIRE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS?

OR DID THEY WRITE OUT OF PASSION, AND ONLY AFTERWARD REALIZE THAT THEY HAD BEEN PASSIONATELY RIDING THE SHIFT KEY THE ENTIRE TIME?

I GUESSS I'LL NEVER KNOW.

-JJ

FullMoon said...

There is a time and place for frankness..
but not in a room of worldly life long politicians, while in discussions potentially affecting millions of lives apparently.

Inga said...

“No, I couldn’t sleep last night. But if you have noticed problems with my cognition, I would consider it a mitzvah for you to point them out! Logical errors, assertions of facts that are demonstrably false, that kind of thing.

I am newly 100% retired, so finding stuff to do is something of a challenge, I admit. Keeping to a schedule too. Maybe that’s why the old guys back in the day all watched Matlock, or that other detective show. Now it’s all on demand! What’s your excuse for commenting here so much?“
—————————-
I’m retired too and I enjoy sparring with you folks. I worked the night shift for many years during my nursing career, so as to be home to see my kids off to school and to be there when they got home. After retiring I too had trouble adjusting my circadian clock to jive with the day people. Melatonin helped somewhat. What really helped a lot was having my iPad screen set to “night shift” which is a yellow light instead of the blue light on a typical screen. I usually switch over to night shift lighting around 8 PM. Cherry juice has natural melatonin in it and it’s a nice little drink to have before bed, in case you don’t want to take melatonin in pill form. Also, as I mentioned, Chamomile tea is relaxing as well as Valerian tea.

Real American said...

Most, if not all of the so-called outrage is because Trump said it. Never before have so much race-neutral language been deemed racist simply because of the identity of the speaker. So many twist themselves into a knot taking Trump's words and either adding racist intent or simply changing what he actually said. They start with the conclusion and every further utterance is declared evidence of the pre-determined result.

Drago said...

GWash: "this was not really what i would consider a private meeting"

LOL

Well, aren't you special? I guess that explains the television cameras, press representatives and large viewing audience!

GWash goes the standard lefty/LLR "I guess that would depend on what the meaning of "is" is.." mode!

Unexpectedly.

walter said...

Trump tweeted:
The language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough, but this was not the language used. What was really tough was the outlandish proposal made - a big setback for DACA!
--
Hmmm..for, you know, CONTEXT...would like to know what that proposal was.

Mike Sylwester said...

I'd like to big salary for being a "culture critic" at the Washington Post, but I just would not be able to bring myself to write inane articles pretending to be outraged about the expression "shithole countries".

Francisco D said...

I surmise that Chuck was the kid in 6th grade who tattled on the other students for trivial or non-existent offenses.

When the teacher stopped listening, he tattled on her.

Of course, he complained to her about her anti-Chuck bias first.

Tim at large said...

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs/esn/n24b.asp

Not looking good for the old “Trump’s a racist who can’t name off the top of his head a country with a majority of sub-Saharan African descent that matches Norway”

The serious question is why can’t we help these countries fix their problems, because draining their “best and brightest,” wherever they fit in our hierarchy of merit, can’t be good for them. How about bring them here, educate them, and send them home? NO! That would be the worst thing for them, subjecting them to a US university education today. BTW, they are figuring this out, and enrollment from overseas is dropping.

Drago said...

GWash: " ..this was a clearly racist remark..."

Nope.

Just as Romney was not "literally Hitler", even though your side said he was.

Oh yeah, you guys said the same thing about McCain, W Bush, HW Bush, Reagan, Goldwater and even some said it of Eisenhower.

You little lefty lunatics have one play in your playbook, and you play it every single time.

But this time, THIS TIME (that was for james james), you are right!! This time for sure!

Maybe you should be writing apology letters to the Secret Service details that had to put up with years of Hillary's cursing abuse.

And don't get me started on how Hillary ordered Naval Attache staffers to serve as porters.

Yeah, we have a lot to learn from you lefties.

I guess the first thing I would ask is what is the most appropriate cigar for use on Interns and does the type of cigar change depending on the specific role of the intern?

FullMoon said...

Whaddya think, Meade? Gratuitous profanity? Judicious profanity? Just plain fun profanity?


So much of the anti-Trump rhetoric is hysterical, hate-based and over the top. Take Chuck’s vituperation as an example: “lying assholes, mendacious Trump asshattery, Fuck you, You are a real fucking joke, You are an even bigger fool and a moron, God damn you eric!”

And that’s in the comments section of just one Althouse post. The rage is palpable.

Drago said...

Francisco D: "I surmise that Chuck was the kid in 6th grade who tattled on the other students for trivial or non-existent offenses"

Chuck spends an inordinate amount of time and pixels over-compensating for something.

FullMoon said...

Francisco D said...

I surmise that Chuck was the kid in 6th grade who tattled on the other students for trivial or non-existent offenses.


Chuck watches live golf on tv and calls in to point out rule infractions.
I saw a post where he argued the validity of the practice with anoter commenter. Wish I had saved it.

Tim at large said...

You can tell it’s not real outrage by the glee with which it’s reported. You could take screen shots from CNN and put them next to ‘glee’ in the dictionary. If you were trying to train a neural net to recognize emotions, you would point it at CNN the past 24 hours to learn to recognize glee.

I don’t think you would use the pictures to teach a machine ‘outrage.’ Outrage, you would use the days after the recent election. That was genuine outrage.

Inga,
I just watch “Ancient Aliens” on the History Channel, if I really want to go to sleep. I used to watch old WWII footage on those channels, but after a while, I began to see the suffering through the deadening that constant exposure to this stuff accomplished over the years. I really do hate war. It’s not just a rhetorical stance. My 90+ year old mother still has nightmares about the Nazis. If Trump never gets us into a war, I will be satisfied with my vote. Anyway, Ancient Aliens works better than drugs for me.

Tim at large said...

Neocons hate Trump, BTW. Great to be on their side, isn’t it?

Drago said...

Senator Lindsey Graham (2013 public Senate Hearing): "The people coming across the southern border live in HELLHOLES. They don’t like that. They want to come here. Our problem is we can’t have everybody in the world who lives in a HELLHOLE come to America."

https://nalert.blogspot.com/2018/01/senator-lindsey-graham-who-attacked.html

GWash, that is what a public meeting looks like. I hope that context helps as you change your soiled drawers.

tcrosse said...

All-caps is just not EMPHATIC enough.

Sebastian said...

As best we can tell, Durbin and Graham tried to lard up a modified Gang of Eight bill with special provisions for Haitians and Salvadorans. Trump got mad. "Why do we need more Haitians? Why do we need more people from these xyz countries?"

He was right to be mad. He was impolitic in his choice of words, but correct in the questions asked. Durbin tried to screw him, and screwed him again by reporting the shithole quote.

Whether this is good from the point of view immigration policy remains to be seen. But by insulting Trump, Durbin et al. stiffened his spine a bit, which will help to prevent a bad bill from passing.

In the meantime, of course, the prog/MSM race baiting continues full tilt. He's a "bigot," don't you know, and so are the Deplorables. That will hurt Trump and the GOP in late 2018, with moderates and women.

Tom said...

Apparently, Lindsey Graham did push back hard against the president’s comments immediately in the meeting.

In my first job, I was in a leadership role. As I was walking around, I came up on a group of African American women tossing around the N-word each other. This was clearly at work and clearly in a place where customers could hear. My first reaction to myself was, “Man, I wish hadn’t heard that.” But it was obvious I needed to deal with it. They all saw me at once and didn’t stop their conversation or use of the N-word as I walked up. Very sternly, but with no anger, I told them that I would never allow anyone to use that word about them and I equally wouldn’t allow them to use that word at work about themselves, even if they’re joking with each other. I told them I never wanted to hear it again and if I did, I’d address it with significant accountability. I asked I’d they clearly understood - they said yes. And I went on about my business.

I really thought one of the ladies would complain that this young white dude was lecturing them. I really thought I’d end up getting fired.

But a few days later, one of the ladies saw me and came up to to talk. She apologized for what they had said and told that word makes her uncomfortable too - but she always just went along. She said she was glad I handled it the way I did.

It taught me that leaders have to have uncomfortable conversations and that decent people appreciate it.

walter said...

Maybe it's the dementia making him spout such "racism".

Drago said...

Sebastian: "In the meantime, of course, the prog/MSM race baiting continues full tilt. He's a "bigot," don't you know, and so are the Deplorables. That will hurt Trump and the GOP in late 2018, with moderates and women."

Gee, do you really think that dems will do the same thing they've done every other time for the last 50 years?

Romney was "literally Hitler".

"literally".

And besides, haven't the republicans already murdered over 957 Million Americans?

donald said...

Wonder what “basically confirmed” means?

Doesn’t seem to be “confirmed”. I mean I’m no linguist or lawyer or whatever but to me that’s a big ole whole you could drive a truck through.

Drago said...

Tom: "Apparently, Lindsey Graham did push back hard against the president’s comments immediately in the meeting."

Oh, gee, Lindsay pushed back hard about a truthful thing the President in a small private meeting that was similar to something Lindsay during a public Senate hearing 4 years ago.

Wow.

Impressive.

Those nations are s***holes. Which is why people risk everything to escape them.

But hey, if we stop being honest about what crapholes those places are, at least we can feel good about our virtue signaling.

But thanks for your totally on point ancedote which means not very much at all as the dems and their LLR allies decide this is as good a time as any to launch ANOTHER attack on a republican as a nazi racist KKK-er.

Angel-Dyne said...

"What I want to know is how the men in the room with him reacted. This is the dinner table test: When you are sitting and socializing with a bigot, what do you do when he reveals his bigotry?"

Speaking of (unspoken) bigotry-flavored comments, why is it that more and more my reaction to the products of contemporary journalists is "Christ, what a faggot".

Spaceman said...

Sebastian;

I think you are are pretty much on target. Durbin is a nasty character and utterly untrustworthy.

As for Haitians, there are plenty still in the USA leftover from the temporary stay provided after the 2010 earthquake. Obama was deporting them, I guess he is a racist.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-to-crack-down-on-deporting-haitian-immigrants/

I am curious in what the Gang did with the Diversity Visa Lottery system. Gives out 50,000 visas and road to citizenship every year - including people from shithole countries

Can't believe with Durbin's great character, he sat and listened. Should have slammed fist on table and walked out. Right.

Gahrie said...

Whaddya think, Meade? Gratuitous profanity? Judicious profanity? Just plain fun profanity?

I really hope Althouse doesn't own any rabbits.

rcocean said...

I have it from good anon sources that when Chuck Schumer heard that Haiti was called a "shithole country" he cried.

Hot little tears.

Just like Life-long Republican Chuck.

Oh, the Humanity!

Jupiter said...

"And then there was the professor, an accomplished and erudite man, who paused for a moment, then slammed his fist on the table and said, “I will never listen to that kind of language, so either you will leave, or I will leave.” "

Are you going to finish that glass of wine before you go? Or can I have the rest of it?

Kevin said...

As always, the big thing for me is that with Trump, we can’t even get a straight answer about what exactly it was that he said.

And why is that Chuck?

Did you even stop to consider it's because Durbin wouldn't give an exact quote of what he said he heard? He didn't go on the record to state specific statements by Trump, statements which could be confirmed or refuted by others in the meeting. No, instead referred to "terrible things" rather than put the actual words out there so we could all come to our own judgement?

Did you consider the media, who instead of wanting to get an accurate account, just ran with "shithole" and paraded a bunch of people on to use the word "racist" time and again?

Did it seem odd that when reporters had Durbin in front of a microphone, they didn't push him for a word-for-word recount, but just scribbled down Durbin "affirmed" the rumored statements so they could get back to the business of Trump-bashing?

You seem to think you inability to get the truth is a Trump problem, when in fact the rest of us keep reminding you it's been going on for at least the last four presidents.

Let me ask you this: did it ever occur to you the burden of truth was never on Trump at all?

walter said...

"Racism must be in his DNA" - @repjohnlewis
Wait..is that racist?
Claims he won't attend SOTU.
Seems he's a bit boycott-prone.

Jupiter said...

And yes, I've had a few thrown in my face, over the years.

Jupiter said...

Tom said...

"But a few days later, one of the ladies saw me and came up to to talk. She apologized for what they had said and told that word makes her uncomfortable too - but she always just went along. She said she was glad I handled it the way I did."

C'mon, Tom. You can do better than that. "And then she waved her Magic Negro wand, and now I'm a Magic Negro too!".

There, isn't that a better ending? Try to dream it that way tonight, you'll get a warm fuzzy! Of course, you'll still be a white devil when you wake up.

walter said...

this is what has been reported (in one instance, at least)re Durbin:
When it came to talk of extending protections for Haitians, Durbin said Trump replied: “We don't need more Haitians.'” “He said 'Put me down for wanting more Europeans to come to this country. Why don't we get more people from Norway?” Durbin told reporters in Chicago.

Kevin said...

Hey everybody, I heard Chuck referred to Obama's "shitty" presidency.

Drago also heard him say "terrible things", and although Chuck admits he's used rough language about how the country was faring under our first black president that the reports are untrue.

Unfortunatley, for Chuck, we've already begun our parade of outrage to label him a racist. Shit being brown and Obama being a browner shade of black, we can tell what he meant.

And although there's no recording of the conversation at all, people are demanding Chuck prove he never said it.

Plus, whatever "rough language" Chuck admits to will just be shown to point to his racist feelings, so it doesn't really matter what he says.

If that seems unfair, it's exactly how you're treating the current president.

Bad Lieutenant said...

, it’s saying you don’t want to give those people from those shitholes haven here and would rather have Norwegians ( who don’t need haven, but are white Europeans).


Finger, I wish you may see this and respond. Is Ireland a s*******? It is a white European country, but New York is crammed full of Irish people who have illegally come here or illegally stayed their permission and would kill to stay here permanently. I don't know why that is, but it is. I'm not talking about 1840, I'm talking about today. Poles too, and probably everywhere, but I know about an awful lot of Irish.

bagoh20 said...

Why do we want all these commenters coming in here from that shithole called retirement? Trump and I want to know why we need more quitters.

rcocean said...

"Are you going to finish that glass of wine before you go? Or can I have the rest of it?"

Yeah, that's what I would said. Probably wouldn't added: "Hope you have a good little cry since my *words* hurt you so much."

bagoh20 said...

Black nations to contrast with Haiti? Anyone? Bueller?

I know asking that makes me racist, but I'm not the one accusing Trump of racism for missing this question on the pop quiz conducted in a private meeting.

Frankly, he shouldn't have said "Norway". He should have offered to give visas to the entire population of The Principality of Sealand.

Kevin said...

this is what has been reported (in one instance, at least)re Durbin:

Account 1: Durbin said Trump replied: “We don't need more Haitians.'” “He said 'Put me down for wanting more Europeans to come to this country. Why don't we get more people from Norway?”

Account 2: Trump then told the senators, “ ‘Haitians — we don’t need more Haitians,’” Durbin said.

Then Trump began talking about immigration from Africa.

“That’s when he used those sickening, heartbreaking remarks, saying, ‘Those shitholes send us the people that they don’t want.’ He repeated that. He didn’t just say it one time,” Durbin said.

So which was it? He wanted more people from Norway? Or he went into a rant about people from Africa where he repeated time and again "sickening, heartbreaking remarks"?

Because Dick Durbin was there and he doesn't seem to know.

MountainMan said...

Andrew Klavan - Of Crudeness and Truth

Guildofcannonballs said...

"... just choose, please."

Listen boy, I've made my choice: you are to be destroyed after turned mad.

bagoh20 said...

I'd rather have Haitians than Californians. Less likely to rob you.

Kevin said...

Frankly, he shouldn't have said "Norway".

He said Norway because he'd spent the day with the Norwegian Prime Minister.

As Scott Adams has pointed out, any reporter who doesn't include that in his "shithole" story is deliberately leaving out the context of the meeting.

But why let facts get in the way of a good "Trump is clearly racist" storyline?

Spaceman said...

Irish and Norwegians don't get get much visa preference these days. Africa gets about 50% of the Diversity Visa lottery

http://usagreencardcenter.com/winner-greencard-statistics-2016-DV2017.htm

I Callahan said...

My guess is that most of the republicans in the room were too shocked to hear the 'leader' of the free world, the president of the US admit to his racist tendencies so openly

Let's get a fact out there right away:

Saying that Haiti is a shithole, and that Norway isn't, is NOT racist, and anyone who says it is is a blithering idiot.

FullMoon said...

“That’s when he used those sickening, heartbreaking remarks, saying, ‘Those shitholes send us the people that they don’t want.’ He repeated that. He didn’t just say it one time,” Durbin said.

That puts an entirely different light on things. Trump is saying the governments of those shithole countries select their worse citizens to allow exit.

Like Cuba and Carter?

bagoh20 said...

"Saying that Haiti is a shithole, and that Norway isn't, is NOT racist, and anyone who says it is is a blithering idiot."

We all know, and I mean all of us know, that this truth is self evident, so stupidity is not a possible explanation. It can only be attributed to blatant dishonesty required of a certain partisan bent.

Which is more clearly a fact: that Haiti is a shithole or that global warming will destroy us all unless we are taxed more vigorously.

I Callahan said...

james - try talking like that your boss or the next time you talk to your pastor... how about decency, propriety, good taste, decorum, respectability, gentility... would you talk like that if you were in front of a crowd, leading a meeting or talking to you mom... is so shame on you...

I'll try to address this heap of shit.

This is a bad comparison, to say it nicely. Trump is the senior person in the room. He can say whatever he wants. So the comparison would be this: does your boss or pastor talk like this in front of you? I've had situations where that very thing happened.

So try again.

What an arrogant ass.

Jupiter said...

HoGWash said...
"james - try talking like that your boss or the next time you talk to your pastor... how about decency, propriety, good taste, decorum, respectability, gentility..."

Oh, Joy! That's six new "bullshit" tags!

FullMoon said...

GWash: " ..this was a clearly racist remark..."

Gwash, are blacks better football, basketball and boxers than whites and Chinese?
Are Chinese more intelligent than blacks and whites?
Are Mexicans harder workers than other races?
Are Indians better at higher math than others?

Are you a racist for thinking so?

rac·ist
ˈrāsəst/
noun
noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1.
a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

walter said...

I'm not sure it's the best scenario for "getting things done", but it does seem like recording everything might be necessary.
At this point, he might need to approach all interactions, regardless of party, like going into a 60 minutes interview.

In the meantime, maybe a shirt for MSM:
Show me!

Inga said...

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-welfare-black-white-780252

“President Donald Trump was apparently unaware that not all—in fact, the vast majority—of welfare beneficiaries are not black as recently as last March, according to a new report.

In the spring of 2017, the newly elected president met with members of the Congressional Black Caucus. During that meeting, one of the members mentioned to Trump that welfare reform would be detrimental to her constituents— adding, “Not all of whom are black,” according to NBC News.

The president was incredulous. “Really? Then what are they?””

rac·ist
ˈrāsəst/
noun
noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1.
a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Jupiter said...

Chuck said...
"WHY ARE WE STILL WONDERING WHAT TRUMP SAID? IF HE IS STILL CLAIMING HE DIDN’T SAY IT, THEN THAT REQUIRES SOME EXPLAINING. IF TRUMP DID SAY IT, THEN OWN IT AND STOP THE PHONY DENIALS."

OK, Capitalist. How about, "I don't know if he said it or not, but if he didn't I wish he had." That work for you? Have you bought the tickets for your Haitian vacation yet, you fucking algorithm?

I Callahan said...

No paco, i was talking about cotton who denied hearing the presidents comment

So, you were there, huh GWash? You know Cotton is lying and Dick Durbin (who has a long history of lying) is telling the truth?

No, nothing is verified. The media is wrong, and you're wrong.

FullMoon said...

INGA, darling,
are blacks better football, basketball and boxers than whites and Chinese?
Are Chinese more intelligent than blacks and whites?
Are Mexicans harder workers than other races?
Are Indians better at higher math than others?

Are you a racist for thinking so?

rac·ist
ˈrāsəst/
noun
noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1.
a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

I Callahan said...

WHY ARE WE STILL WONDERING WHAT TRUMP SAID? IF HE IS STILL CLAIMING HE DIDN’T SAY IT, THEN THAT REQUIRES SOME EXPLAINING. IF TRUMP DID SAY IT, THEN OWN IT AND STOP THE PHONY DENIALS.

I don't know why this is hard for Chuck to understand. Here it is: embrace the healing power of the word "and". It is quite possible he didn't say it. If so, then the media and Durbin should be loathed for the scumbags they are. If he DID say it, so what? Nothing in what he said was untrue, nothing in what he said was racist.

Are you picking up what we're laying down?

Bad Lieutenant said...

Inga not finger

Inga said...

...are blacks better football, basketball and boxers than whites and Chinese?
Are Chinese more intelligent than blacks and whites?
Are Mexicans harder workers than other races?
Are Indians better at higher math than others?.

Are you a racist for thinking so?”

Don’t ask me, I didn’t assert any of the above listed things.

buwaya said...

Hmmm.,
What if a fellow, Mr. Damore, formerly of Google, say, objected to such open bigotry at the time he heard it...
Ah, wait, he did. Or shortly after, anyway. And he responded with reason and data, confidentially.
I begin to suspect the motives of certain persons, on these matters.

Inga said...

“Inga not finger”

LOL!

Is Ireland a shithole today? No.

Is Trump deporting the Irish in the same number that he’s deporting people from “browner” nations?

buwaya said...

But, Inga, you must account for reliable observations.
Or abandon making observations, and inferring things thereby.
This is human nature.
The rejection of this is inhuman.

FullMoon said...


Blogger Inga said...

...are blacks better football, basketball and boxers than whites and Chinese?
Are Chinese more intelligent than blacks and whites?
Are Mexicans harder workers than other races?
Are Indians better at higher math than others?.

Are you a racist for thinking so?”

Don’t ask me, I didn’t assert any of the above listed things.

Nice try. Do you believe any of those things? Lie, and say "no".

Chuck said...


I don't know why this is hard for Chuck to understand. Here it is: embrace the healing power of the word "and". It is quite possible he didn't say it. If so, then the media and Durbin should be loathed for the scumbags they are. If he DID say it, so what? Nothing in what he said was untrue, nothing in what he said was racist.

Why are we guessing about all of this? The one guy who has been clear about all of this is Durbin. I don’t like Durban or his parents politics personally, but he’s been admirably clear. Graham seems to have made himself clear, albeit through Tim Scott.

Tom Cotton, who I used to really like, and David Perdue, have been Trumpian in their weaselly opacity.

I think Trump did indeed say “shithole countries,” but nobody should have to guess about that. I’m offended that we can’t get any better clarity out of the office of the President of the United States. We should know, simply and clearly.

bagoh20 said...

So Blacks are not generally better at Basketball? Really?

Why should anyone value the opinion of someone who can't say that.

There are only two types of people who cannot admit this: Openly racist whites and the dishonest who know better, but feel that signaling is more important than truth.

Inga said...

“Ronnie Millar, who runs Boston's Irish International Immigrant Center, thinks Cunningham's decision to share his experiences and speak out for the rights of unauthorized immigrants in the United States made him a target for deportation. ICE would only confirm that his arrest was due to his visa overstay.

But with Cunningham becoming the first high-profile Irish immigrant deported under President Donald Trump, the chilling effect is there.There were shock waves sent through the community, a disbelief that this was actually happening," said Millar, a close friend of Cunningham’s.

The Migration Policy Institute estimates there are 16,000 undocumented Irish living in the US. The Irish Embassy in Washington puts that number closer to 50,000. Most live in Boston, New York or Chicago. Like Jerry, many are hiding in plain sight, navigating a difficult world of privilege and panic as white, undocumented immigrants.

“I don’t think anyone is outright targeting people who look like me,” Jerry said, “But there’s still a fear. You could be walking in the street and bump into the wrong person, you can get pulled over while driving, walk into the wrong building or show the wrong ID. Any mishap can make this day my last.”

“Most people think undocumented and they think people who come across the southern border. They’re not thinking about the Irish guy who lives right next to them,” Cunningham said in an interview with this reporter a year before his arrest. “They don’t see that part of it, but we have to live with that every day.”

Cunningham recalled local police and immigration officials not questioning his statuses during stops. He felt that he was given a pass because of his Irish accent. He wondered if the officers would have treated him differently if he were black or brown.

Randy Capps of the Migration Policy Institute said, as a whole, white and other non-Latino immigrants are targeted for arrest and detention at disproportionately lower rates. "It’s the Latino immigrants from Mexico and Central America that are overrepresented in terms of arrests and deportations," said Capps. "The numbers of Europeans, white people, are very, very small. The pattern tends to be that most of the focus is on Mexicans and Central Americans."

Accusations of unequal treatment and racial profiling among immigrant communities have also sparked criticism in Boston about local media attention to Cunningham’s arrest. Carol Rose, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts, said that for every one story of a white immigrant who faces deportation, there are many other stories of non-white immigrant experiences not told.“

https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-07-11/boston-irish-immigrant-s-arrest-highlights-role-race-immigration-enforcement

Drago said...

Have the dems ever explained how Mitt Romney, W, HW, Reagan, Nixon, Goldwater were all racist? And Nazi's to boot!

In fact, one of my favorite criticisms of the Bush family by the insane lefties (which is all of them) was that the Bush family were not only literally Hitler, but that the Bush family specifically funded the rise of the Nazi party in Germany!!

Again, when you have one play in the playbook, that's the one you're going to play.

FullMoon said...

Inga said...

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-welfare-black-white-780252

“President Donald Trump was apparently unaware that not all—in fact, the vast majority—of welfare beneficiaries are not black as recently as last March, according to a new report.

In the spring of 2017, the newly elected president met with members of the Congressional Black Caucus. During that meeting, one of the members mentioned to Trump that welfare reform would be detrimental to her constituents— adding, “Not all of whom are black,” according to NBC News.

The president was incredulous. “Really? Then what are they?””


No real person named as source:
The participants spoke anonymously because they were not authorized to share details about the private meetings.

gg6 said...

What a blatantly fabricated anecdote by the "culture critic" at the journalism shithole called the WAPO.

Chuck said...

Saying that Haiti is a shithole, and that Norway isn't, is NOT racist, and anyone who says it is is a blithering idiot.

Then why is Trump denying having said it? Why not put out a press release and really let rip with the point you are making? Why not have Trump own it? He’s not doing that. He’s putting out incredible, cagily-worded semi-denials. Trump doesn’t seem to share your view.

FullMoon said...

Chucky, Chucky, Chucky.
Obviously you are too busy to read all the comments. Let me repeat:

“That’s when he used those sickening, heartbreaking remarks, saying, ‘Those shitholes send us the people that they don’t want.’ He repeated that. He didn’t just say it one time,” Durbin said.

That puts an entirely different light on things. Trump is saying the governments of those shithole countries select their worse citizens to allow exit.

Like Cuba and Carter?

Breathlessly awaiting refutation.

Drago said...

"Accidental Leftist" Chuck: "Tom Cotton, who I used to really like, and David Perdue, have been Trumpian in their weaselly opacity."

"Bowe Bergdahl republican" Chuck moves from strongly defending piece of crap Dem Senator Bluementhal who lied about his service to speaking negatively of Republican Senator and Bronze Star winner Tom Cotton.

Who could have guessed that a little weasel like Chuck who rumor-mongers about children would be the sort to do that?

LOL

Everyone could have guessed that.

Of course, not surprising that LLR Chuck is in full Durbin-defense mode as well. All that piece of crap did was call US soldiers nazi's.

Well played Chuck. Well played. I can't tell you how grateful everyone is that you didn't serve. Something tells me you would have "accidentally" abandoned your post and "accidentally" gone over to the other side and then, coincidentally, the other side becomes more proficient in attacking our interests.

So, all in all, win-win.

FullMoon said...

Chuck said...

Saying that Haiti is a shithole, and that Norway isn't, is NOT racist, and anyone who says it is is a blithering idiot.

Then why is Trump denying having said it? Why not put out a press release and really let rip with the point you are making? Why not have Trump own it? He’s not doing that. He’s putting out incredible, cagily-worded semi-denials. Trump doesn’t seem to share your view.

1/13/18, 4:13 PM


Obviously in order to annoy you and people like you. You being so important and all.
Or, maybe he has more important things to do, like Presidenting.

FullMoon said...

For those visiting Althouse for first time, perhaps an explanation of humorous nicknames affectionately assigned to commenter Chuck.
LLR; Life long Republican. Because although complaining daily about Republican President Trump

Bowe Bergdahl republican" Chuck strongly defended piece of crap Dem Senator Bluementhal who consistently lied about his service, lying and pretending to be a veteran who had actually experienced combat in VietNam

Titty Twister: Acquired during his violent fantasy faze regarding diminutive newscaster (and fellow lawyer) Greta van Sustern.

Life Long Titty Twister is invaluable to the comment section of Althouse as he generally makes other commenters feel better about their psychological and emotional well being and intelligence.

Feste said...

It’s nobody’s goddamn business what the other men may have said to Trump in private.

The original question - "What did the men with Donald Trump do when he spoke of ‘shithole countries’?” - has answers as numerous as the number of men in the room cycling through their internal multiple illusions and their internal narratives about their own “stable” ingenious motives for saying, or for not saying something now, later, never, and what.

Kennicott may or may not have offered a valid or an interesting refocusing of responsibility back onto the other men present, because Kennicott’s faux-omniscient chiding assumes that personal confrontations might be reported to the press in the end (so not really private confrontations), not unlikely for the purpose of Kennicott to have something to report to the public under the pressures of feeding the beasts in his own swamp and media shithole of daily readership addicted to media sensationalism - both pro and anti-Trump.

Kennicott is clueless whether any of the men present did an honorable act of – privately – speaking to Trump - without reporting private comments to Kennicott’s self-worshiping gods of the public press.

I share a generic agreement with the desire for more private and personal confrontation (“I would like to see more in-person confrontation”), but even this desire is a subtle or not-so-subtle potential trap, because wanting “to see” more in-person confrontation - “to see” it - requires a report to the press or other public media, where all the risks of McCarthyism await your visual (“to see”) pleasures.

If men of honor, right or wrong, privately confronted Trump in person and off-the-record, and without going to the press, then that’s none of Kennicott’s, or my, goddamn business.

What in honor is said, right or wrong, in private - is private.

There’s a Faustian fine and demonic line between wanting more private confrontation versus wanting “to see” it.

Fabi said...

"I’m offended that we can’t get any better clarity out of the office of the President of the United States."

Better put some ice on it.

Jim at said...

My wife comes home from work yesterday. Politically moderate. Voted for Bill Clinton, mixes ticket, wrote in a name in 2016. State agency office. Top level. Mixed workers politically.

"Just what did Trump say that was so wrong?"

I dunno, hon. Apparently, observing Haiti is a shithole and Norway isn't is now racist.

---

The best part? Thanks to the insanity of the left and the Never-Trumpers?

Guess who she's voting for in 2020.

Keep it up.

Jim at said...

Who cares if the country was called a derogatory name?

You do. You've been screaming it non-stop for two days now and trying to claim otherwise.

Only a fucking idiot could take "Haiti is a shithole' and equate that he's specifically talking about the people who live there.

But you just keep it up. Normal people see right through your dishonest bullshit.


Inga said...

“For those visiting Althouse for first time, perhaps an explanation of humorous nicknames affectionately assigned to commenter Chuck.”

For those visiting Althouse for the first time be aware that there are a number of commenters who are obsessed by commenter Chuck. Every thread eventually becomes a “Let’s get Chuck!” thread, which is so damn tedious.

walter said...

I wondered what the basis for "titty twister" was.
Anything involving violent fantasy and GVS I don't want to more about...

Feste said...

... follow up: I’m still working through the value and relevance of the Ertha Kitt connection. I don’t want to be spoon fed answers because I’m happy for now in multiple questions laced with ambiguities about how and why Kitt is relevant to the idea of personal confrontation.

Yeah, Kitt spoke up to Lady Bird. I get it.

Then Kitt says later about her FBI file something like, “I said nothing. I went to France.” Where she was a star!

An ambiguous example at best. Did Kitt speak up? Or did Kitt "say nothing" and go to France? There's a biological virtue in unstable genius - with metrics to prove it (another matter for another time).

I watched a few other of her YouTubes because I’m not familiar with her place in stardom - loved her purring the specific lines, “I want to be wicked” (too hot), in “I Want to Be Evil.” So is France the evil Kitt’s relief from the shithole of backed up Johnsonian sewage over the war, in America? - is that it? And just why did Lady Bird cry? - because Kitt ruined her luncheon? - because Lady Bird knew these truths and cried tears of agreement? - both?

Jim at said...

No, Althouse, you have this all wrong. - Chuck

And the sun comes up in the east on another day.

Inga said...

“Only a fucking idiot could take "Haiti is a shithole' and equate that he's specifically talking about the people who live there.”

Only a fucking idiot wouldn’t be able to put two and two together. Taken alone one might come to that conclusion, but taken in context, an intelligent person would be able to recognize what was actually being said. You, the 35%, the Trump sycophants can chose to believe what you want, the rest of us know better.

Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” In particular, when he learned that a certain proposal might lead to green cards for people from Haiti, he asked, “Why do we need more Haitians?” and added, “Take them out.” He also wanted to know why there couldn’t be more Norwegians coming over instead.

walter said...

Has this been chatted about chez Althouse?

From Newsweak:
The memo from Jennifer Palmieri, Hillary Clinton’s former top aide and executive vice president for communications and advocacy for the Center for American Progress Action Fund, called on Democrats to make the fight for DACA recipients a “moral imperative” or else risk jeopardizing their chances in 2018.

“The fight to protect Dreamers is not only a moral imperative, it is also a critical component of the Democratic Party’s future electoral success,” the memo reads.

FullMoon said...

Inga said... [hush]​[hide comment]

“Only a fucking idiot could take "Haiti is a shithole' and equate that he's specifically talking about the people who live there.”

Only a fucking idiot wouldn’t be able to put two and two together. Taken alone one might come to that conclusion, but taken in context, an intelligent person would be able to recognize what was actually being said.

No need to put two and two together, sweetheart.

(Again)Here is what Trump actually said:

“That’s when he used those sickening, heartbreaking remarks, saying, ‘Those shitholes send us the people that they don’t want.’ He repeated that. He didn’t just say it one time,” Durbin said.

That puts an entirely different light on things. Trump is saying the governments of those shithole countries select their worse citizens to allow exit.

Like Cuba and Carter?

Breathlessly awaiting refutation.

walter said...

Fullmoon,
That's the "wrong Durbin quote", no doubt.
Record this shit(hole)

FullMoon said...

nga said...

“For those visiting Althouse for first time, perhaps an explanation of humorous nicknames affectionately assigned to commenter Chuck.”

For those visiting Althouse for the first time be aware that there are a number of commenters who are obsessed by commenter Chuck. Every thread eventually becomes a “Let’s get Chuck!” thread, which is so damn tedious.

1/13/18, 4:47 PM


More like "Let's tease Chuck".

FullMoon said...

INGA, Honey, blogger misplaced your answer, so, I say again; (learned 'say again frommtwister Chuck)
Blogger Inga said...

...are blacks better football, basketball and boxers than whites and Chinese?
Are Chinese more intelligent than blacks and whites?
Are Mexicans harder workers than other races?
Are Indians better at higher math than others?.

Are you a racist for thinking so?”

Don’t ask me, I didn’t assert any of the above listed things.

Nice try. Do you believe any of those things? Lie, and say "no".Maybe the question makes you uncomfortable. I understand. We all do

FullMoon said...

walter said...

Fullmoon,
That's the "wrong Durbin quote", no doubt.
Record this shit(hole)

1/13/18, 5:06 PM

Yep. An Inconvenient Truth!

n.n said...

...? Show me the camera!

iowan2 said...

Ann asked who benefits from the DACA deal collapsing? I've been thinking about that.
First, only one person claims to have heard the language. But. even then, exactly why did Durbin piss all over the negotiation? One done in private, all assuming that the negotiation will not be shared. Frank talk, give and take, deals made, principles shaded, all for the sake of movement forward. Durbin pissed all over it, and now Republicans can gladly omit any Democrat from being included, because they have prove themselves to care not about compromise. If I were a Republican, that would be my response to any reporter asking my opinion.
"Durbin has proven he refuses to negotiate in good faith, I will now refuse to talk candidly with any Democrat because they would rather lie outright, twist my words, take statements out of context and have no desire to govern"

walter said...


Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
9h9 hours ago

I don’t believe the Democrats really want to see a deal on DACA. They are all talk and no action. This is the time but, day by day, they are blowing the one great opportunity they have. Too bad!

--
As Palmieri said, the "fight" is crucial.

William said...

"...no one should speak like that, not in the White House, not in the United States, not in decent society?"

Oh for God's sake please. Like no one has ever uttered profanity in the White House? These people are just flat out idiots.

Robert said...

I dunno what I'd say. Maybe, "Hold on Mr. The Donald, you just can't call a shithole a shithole."

Big Mike said...

So Donald Trump referred to shithole countries as “shithole countries.” Is that the best the Democrats have? I’m already bored.

walter said...

It's well known that the best way to forge a deal is to report poopy words to the press.

tcrosse said...

This is what is known as calling a spade a fucking shovel.

EDH said...

Is this what they mean by people having a shit-fit?

"A shit-fit? Whew. Glad I wasn't there."

walter said...


Bill Clinton
‏Verified account @BillClinton
Jan 12

I’ve traveled and worked in Haiti, and across Africa and Central America. The countries the president described with his epithet do not exist. Some thoughts as we remember those lost in Haiti eight years ago today: https://www.facebook.com/billclinton/posts/10155348846042252 …
8,189 replies 14,530 retweets 61,829 likes
Bill Clinton
‏Verified account @BillClinton
Jan 8

A free press is critical to a free society—the detention of journalists anywhere is unacceptable. The Reuters journalists being held in Myanmar should be released immediately.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/uncategorized/free-press-under-threat-haiti/3011/
Haiti’s climate of widespread poverty and political instability pervades the practice of journalism, as well. Amidst prevailing illiteracy, print media has limited impact, making hundreds of small radio stations the country’s primary independent media. Journalists can be critical of the government, but true investigative reporting is rare, and self-censorship is common, due to both the financial and security concerns of journalists. Radio stations may censor content to avoid loss of limited advertising funds, and many journalists are susceptible to bribery. Moreover, while laws in Haiti exist to protect free speech, practicing journalists experience a far different reality. They are frequently harassed or attacked by pro-government supporters, militia, or criminals. The government rarely enforces laws protecting the press, nor responds effectively when violence is reported, and murders of prominent journalists in 2000 and 2001 have yet to be prosecuted. These factors contribute to an atmosphere of lawlessness that drives many in the media from the country or into hiding.

The conditions for working journalists have declined even further in recent years, as antigovernment protests, the murder of a prominent gang leader in late 2003, and, soon after, the ouster of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in early 2004, have all led to political and gang violence. Press advocacy groups have noted a range of harassment and violence against both Haitian and foreign journalists, including death threats, arson, and attacks with stones, machetes, and gunfire targeting journalists in Cap Haitien, Port-au-Prince, and other cities experiencing unrest.

Drago said...

Inga and the other lefties are very protective of their pet Chuck.

Its heartwarming really.

walter said...

I don't remember this being an issue:
Bill Clinton
‏Verified account @BillClinton
4h4 hours ago
No Clinton Foundation funds—dedicated to Haiti or otherwise—were used to pay for Chelsea’s wedding. It’s not only untrue, it’s a personal insult to me, to Hillary, and to Chelsea and Marc.

Did the Clinton Foundation pay for Chelsea’s wedding?

John Pickering said...

Poor Ann, who has lost her moral compass in solidarity with her tribe. Somewhere in her conscience, she knows that if the American President says, or suggests, or allows it to be suggested of him, that he despises a person or a group of people because of their ethnic background then he is derelict in his job of executing the law and defending the Constitution.

The current president has shown and said that he is a bigot and a racist. Ann knows this. What is she doesn't seem to know, is, is that a bad thing.

Because there is the tribe, sampled in this chat, that pulls her more strongly.

I fret about her benighted law students, of which I hope there are few. Do any of them read this blog?

Better writers than me have made the point that a segment of the white population that hasn't been able to leverage the advantages that have made other whites the economic masters of the world, has in turn persuaded itself that they are as much, or even more, discriminated against in the U.S. as Native Americans, blacks who are descendants of slaves and brown-skinned immigrants from south of the border or across the seas.

This resentment also shows in the devilish depiction of Mrs. Clinton, whose elite background and way of moving through the world is alien to a certain white population and leads people to conclude that she must be at the head of an international crime conspiracy.

This white resentment needs to be satisfied somehow, and it is up to other whites as well as the upwardly mobile minority communities to acknowledge this and do their best to satisfy their grievances, at the same time without indulging ethnic hatred.

Educated people like Ann can make a significant contribution by giving her readers the benefit of her discernment. Too often Ann throws up her hands and lets it hang out there with Jack and Roger and those other boys lost in the jungle.

Take a stand Ann against this vain and dreadful president and show your readers there is a better way.

Drago said...

"The fight to protect Dreamers is not only a moral imperative, it is also a critical component of the Democratic Party’s future electoral success,” the memo reads.

Precisely.

This is why Inga and Chuck are fighting so hard for the dems.

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 329   Newer› Newest»